Is it over, or is it just different?
That question hits different when the plan you built your identity around disappears without warning.
Mel Doyle knows that feeling well. After a long career at one of Australia’s biggest networks, her contract wound up almost overnight.
What followed was an audit on what she could do, what she couldn’t, and what she actually wanted. It was a deliberate decision to stop treating her job title as her identity.
That shift, managed while showing up for her family, her health and her relationships, is a muscle Mel says has only gotten stronger with age. She lives by priorities, not balance.
This episode is about what happens after the plan falls apart and why starting over is a skill you can build, not just something you survive.
In this episode Mel shares:
- Why reinvention is a skill that can be developed
- How she navigated leaving Channel Seven after 25 years
- Why it’s important to let yourself grieve before moving forward
- The mindset that helped her embrace a completely new chapter
- How to identify your strengths and recognise your weaknesses
- Why preparation creates opportunity
- The difference between work-life balance and priorities
- Balancing an ambitious career with raising young children
- Why being fully present matters more than trying to do everything
- How her priorities have evolved through each decade of life
- Lessons from interviewing Oprah and preparing for high-pressure moments
- Why purpose becomes even more important as we age
- The role of gratitude, authenticity and joy in sustaining success
Key Quotes
“Opportunity meets preparation.”
“If you’ve found what lights your fire, you’re incredibly lucky.”
Episode Resources
PRE-ORDER For the Long Run by Jess Spendlove 👉 https://link.amazon/B0fkPVdbY
Mel Doyle
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bronte_campbell/?hl=en
Book: How to Age Against The Machine: https://ageagainstthemachine.com.au/
Jessica Spendlove Website – www.jessicaspendlove.com
Jessica Spendlove Keynotes – JessicaspendloveKeynotes – Jessica Spendlove
The High-Performance Profile Quiz https://jessicaspendlove.com/quiz/
Jess Spendlove Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jess_spendlove_dietitian/?hl=en
Jess Spendlove LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-spendlove-64173bb8/
About Mel
Melissa is an award-winning journalist, television presenter, radio host, author, mc & speaker.
She hosts weekend breakfast on Smooth FM (NOVA Entertainment) and won the 2014 ACRA for Best Newcomer & 2018 ACRA for Best Music Presenter.
Melissa was with the Seven Network from 1995 to 2020. For 15 years Melissa co-hosted Australia’s number one breakfast show, Sunrise forming one of televisions most charismatic and popular partnerships, Mel and Kochie (David Koch). Mel & Kochie also hosted landmark televisions specials such as Where Are They Now?, TV Turns 50 and the Asia Tsunami Appeal.
Melissa was anchor and Senior News Correspondent for Seven News and host and senior correspondent of Seven’s flagship public affairs program, Sunday Night.
About Your Host
Jessica Spendlove | Wellbeing Speaker & High Performance Strategist
Jess Spendlove is an international wellbeing and high performance speaker, coach, and advisor. With over 15 years of experience across corporate leadership, elite sport and the military she is known for helping ambitious leaders and teams optimise energy, build resilience, and sustain peak performance.
As one of Australia’s leading performance dietitians and a trusted voice in executive wellbeing, Jess delivers science-backed strategies that empower individuals, teams and organisations to thrive under pressure and achieve long-term success.
Episode Transcript
The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy
Melissa Doyle (00:00.206)
My contract at Channel Seven wound up after twenty five years. It was just a case of you can leave today, here’s your box of stuff, goodbye, that was it. It was a bit a pill to swallow.
Jess Spendlove (00:11.394)
How were you coping and managing that behind the scenes?
Melissa Doyle (00:14.906)
I personally just wallowed for a while. You know, you sometimes you just gotta feel sad and sorry for yourself, but you can only do that for so long before it’s like, okay, well, I’m 50, what am I gonna do next? You age biologically, but it’s an emotional thing. You know, aging is represented in the bedroom, in your bank accounts, in going out into the world. Like there’s just so many touch points to it, and everybody handles it differently, and everybody’s affected by it differently.
I’m only halfway through my life. Change can be a really good, empowering thing. There was a decade of my life where I had blinkers on to everything else. I would come off air and I was just done. I was tapped out. You know, you’re always feeling guilty. Mum guilt never leaves. You know, I think we have a conversation that’s quite different between working mums and working dads. But I just had to make it work in a way that I felt good about.
Luckily the kids are fine, they turned out okay and could show them that you too can do what you want to do and you’ll find a way to make it work.
Jess Spendlove (01:19.5)
Mel, I’d love to know what is your favorite thing about the current chapter of work and life that you’re in.
Melissa Doyle (01:25.18)
it’s exciting. new things, new adventures, new challenges. I think I’ve always been that person that’s up for anything and I’m still doing it, which is fantastic. So yeah, I’ll I’ll give anything a red hot crack and if it doesn’t work out, we just quietly walk away and try something new. So that’s what I’m loving the most right now is is new adventures.
Jess Spendlove (01:45.41)
And how do you determine that? Is that like in your body how you feel something lights you up? Is that cognitively that stimulates you? Like how do you determine what is that right thing for you at this stage?
Melissa Doyle (02:00.664)
think it’s a few things. One of it, I think I’ve always been a little bit go with the flow. I’ve always believed that you’ve got to be in the right place at the right time, but you’ve got to have done the work and have the skills to be able to walk through the door when it opens. You know, opportunity meets preparation. And so I’ve always been that person that will put up my hand for something and try it.
But I’ve got to know that I can do it. But be prepared that if it’s not working out for either party, then maybe that’s not for you. And if it is, then that’s fantastic. I think I just like that challenge. I like challenging myself to learn a new skill, to take something on, to try something. I think it’s really good for the brain to stay agile. I think it’s good for the body. I think I just think change can be a really good empowering thing.
I I, you know, we go to a restaurant for dinner, I’ll order something different every time. I’ll order something I never cook at home, you know, that’s just me. If we’re going on holidays, I want to go somewhere I’ve never been before. So I think that’s just part of who I am. I I maybe that’s the thrill of why I became a journalist, but that’s just always been in me. So I think I’m still pursuing that.
Jess Spendlove (03:18.092)
I think, you know, a lot of people are navigating change right now. I feel like we’ve been navigating change for the last five or six years and every time we think that’s going to pause, then something else has has come up. I saw a stat the other day that leaders are more stressed right now than they were at pandemic peak. And, you know, if we even think back to to COVID, a lot shifted for you in that that period of time on all fronts, on a work front, on a
life front, on a milestone front, maybe a little bit on a health front as well. As someone who likes change, that is a lot of change at one time. How did you work your way through that phase and yeah, what do you think it was that enabled you to just put one foot in front of the other when your everything was shifting around you?
Melissa Doyle (04:09.218)
First of all, I think you just have to put one foot in front of the other sometimes. It’s that, you know, put your big girl pants on and just keep going. the fact that I love change and thrive on it doesn’t mean it’s always easy. I think it’s really important when things shift to feel the feels. I think we all experienced that during the pandemic in different ways. I my contract at Channel 7 wound up in 2020 after 25 years.
And it was a bitter pill to swallow. I I walked away thinking I had so many emotions and you know, I was sad and all of those things and and because it was in the middle of the pandemic, there was kind of no farewell. It was just a case of you can leave today, here’s your box of stuff, goodbye. That was it. And that that sort of was a hard moment as well. But look, it is what it is. I think I personally
just wallowed for a while. I had to let myself wallow. I had to let myself, you know, you sometimes you just gotta feel sad and sorry for yourself and go through the woe is me me moment. but you can only do that for so long before it’s like, okay, well, get up, get going, what’s next? So I think there’s a there’s definitely a a mental part of it that you’ve got to look you’ve got two ways to look at it. You can keep the woe is me wallowing shouldn’t have been should have been something else.
Or you see it as an opportunity, and I chose to see it as an opportunity. I chose to see it as, all right, I’m 50, what am I gonna do next? I’m only halfway through my life. What’s next? I’ve had an amazing ride. I am so grateful for every opportunity that I’ve ever had. I’m grateful for the jobs that I had at seven over those many years that have given me the profile that I have, that have given me the skill set that I have. You know, sometimes I think we look at our skill base and think we can only do one thing, and I certainly thought that. I’m a journalist, if you ask me, you know.
What I do, that’s always my answer. And in my mind, I never saw beyond the parameters of what journalism meant, that I could do all these other things. And so I think I looked at it as a chance to go, okay, well well what are the things I can do? What are the things that I can’t do? What are the things I want to do? What are the things I don’t want to do? And now what are you gonna do? And and that was really exciting. A little daunting, but also really, really exciting.
Jess Spendlove (06:28.782)
And that process, was that a an inward reflection, a a journaling and and I don’t know if maybe some of that even links into practices that you have within yourself? Or or was it just like you said, taking the time and then starting to work through and think through and I don’t even know, have conversations with your network or obviously, you know, your your family and your trusted trusted loved ones around you. What what did that actual process?
Melissa Doyle (06:55.054)
a lot of inward thinking, a lot of, you know, walk the dog and contemplate a lot of conversations with with people who I’ve connected with over the years, whether they be personal life or professional life. A lot of I think it’s really important to actually step back and look at yourself as a product, as a try to remove your own self from who you are professionally. I know that sounds a bit crazy, but if you know what I mean. And I had to look at Melissa Doyle.
the journalist, television, radio presenter, what can she do? And what should she do? I tried to remove that part and look at myself a little bit objectively. and then just yeah, com conversations and ideas and different things sprung from things I I worked on with, you know, I I did a a an audio documentary with one of my former producers from Sunday Night, Naeemer Brown.
And when I turned 50, we were having deep and meaningful conversations over glasses of wine late into night, going, my god, I’m turning fifty, and how do I feel about it? And how does the world feel about it? And how do we view aging? And being two journalists, that of course then led us to do something about it. So we did an audio documentary on Audible called Age Against the Machine. And then off the back of that a book came. So a lot of things came about through quite organic, natural conversations.
Other things, you know, I was a little bit more proactive. I wrote another book. I wrote two books during COVID, as much for my own mental health as anything. I had to stay busy. I’m not very good when I’m not busy. So the other one was called Fifteen Seconds of Brave, which was a collection of stories of people who had been through, you know, pretty tough circumstances. And that was just something I felt really passionate about doing. So that was a project I took on because I wanted to do it. And I would get up at five o’clock in the morning and
Tap away on the computer and write it. So, you know, sometimes things come into your world, other times they grow from a place that you’ve had a an idea bubbling along for many years and suddenly now’s the time to to run with it. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of different places that ideas and projects can come from.
Jess Spendlove (09:04.77)
I love that, you know, the idea of what are my strengths and and what have I done and and removing yourself and then also probably thinking about what do I want to do? You know, one of the what am I witness Believe in leaning into them or got playing to your strength like as in leaning in and trying to develop them or just go, these are my strengths and these are where I want to kinda
Melissa Doyle (09:15.138)
What are my weaknesses? Just as important I think as well
Melissa Doyle (09:26.286)
Probably a bit of both. Yeah, I think a little bit of both. I think you’ve got to play to your strengths because that’s where you feel most confident and that’s where you feel probably most comfortable. But sometimes it’s good to lean into the weaknesses, but that’s where then I’ll go and do some work or do some research or do some study or whatever it might be. But then there’s other parts of me that I think, do I wanna spend the time
learning that or coming to terms with something else when I can be doing what it is that I can do, you know, that I’ve learnt to do.
Jess Spendlove (09:58.936)
The thing I find interesting about probably commonalities in backgrounds, very different, but when I think about elite sport and when I think about journalism, it’s operating at a pace. It’s highly competitive industries. and to be able to withstand the stamina to stay in those kind of professions also requires a level of commitment and excellence and and resilience.
How much at the moment do you feel like, you know, I know you’ve said you like to be busy and working on lots of projects, but do you feel you’re working at the same pace or a different pace than before? Okay. Yeah. No. No, thank you. No.
Melissa Doyle (10:37.998)
look the pace of particularly breakfast television, which I did for 15 years, that’s intense. You know, I was getting up at three o’clock in the morning, I was at work by four, we were on air, live TV in itself is intense. you know, I’m sure similar to an athlete, you know, I would come off air and I was just done. I was tapped out, my whole, you know, every ounce of my energy had been used up.
giving the best performance I could every single day. You know, you’ve gotta turn up, you’ve gotta be on, you’ve gotta bring it all, no matter how you feel. And I did that having a baby and a toddler. So you know, that was kind of challenging and I didn’t have a lot left in the tank after I had the work part of me and and the family part of me. but I thrived on it. So now it’s a really different pace. It took me a while to get out of the rhythm of it to
to come down from that need for that adrenaline rush. You know, my when I left sunrise, I went to Sunday night. Our long form public affairs, you know, I loved the getting the phone call in the morning before I got into work saying, pack a bag, you’re flying to, you know, France this afternoon. There’s been a terror attack and we want you to go and cover it or whatever it might be. you know, that that I thrived on.
that that unknown, that I don’t know where I’m gonna be tomorrow, I don’t know what I’m gonna be doing. I really loved it. Whereas now I’d probably I don’t know whether I’d I’d roll with that as as easily. But yeah, that was definitely a part of who I was for such a long time.
Jess Spendlove (12:18.53)
And if we think even about each of those phases, which was, you know, over a decade f for each of those at different kind of life points, very young family, and that’s the one, you know, selfishly I’m a little bit interested in because it’s the the phase I’m in with an eighteen month old and and it’s the constant checking in for me on am I doing work that I’m fulfilled because I know how I’m wired, but am I gonna look back and think I’ve worked too much and this is a question I I I dance with. But
You know, if we think about maybe your time at at Sunrise, young family, managing yourself, giving so much to everyone, a nation, how were you coping and managing that behind the scenes? Did you have a few like non negotiable habits or rituals or were you just surviving in the moment and surviving and thriving in the moment?
Melissa Doyle (13:05.87)
just surviving. Yeah. It was bloody hard. And I think anyone that tells you otherwise, half their luck. Yeah, it’s a real look, I think for any parent with small children, whatever your work life might be, it’s hard. It’s just really hard. I do think there was a decade of my life where it was just I I had the blinkers on to everything else. It was, it was job, it was family.
And that’s all I had the capacity for. luckily I’ve got gorgeous friends that I’ve had forever who are still there and had the patience to to wait to that that I popped out the other end of that. But yeah, look, it was it was survival. I think you know, get good people around you, ask for help. I’m I’m the first, you know, I’m particularly back then was the first one to offer my hand to help friends if their kids needed it because I knew that I would need them. You know, don’t don’t do it alone.
So yeah, it’s it’s really hard, but it goes quickly. And I remember someone giving me advice, Ann Sanders at seven, is a little bit older than myself and Nat and some of our colleagues that were having babies around the same time. And she said to us, they need you when they’re older more than they do now. So when they’re little, you know, it’s pretty easy fix. They’re hungry, they’re tired, they’re cold, you know, you’ve got to give them cuddles and all of those beautiful mothering things. But I f I did find when they they came became teenagers there was a lot more to navigate.
There was a lot more reading between the lines, there was a lot more observing. They weren’t as quick to just straight up say to you, I need this or I want that. So yes, those days were busy, but I’d like to think that I, as a parent, was very present. I think I’ve I don’t know if I it’s maybe sounds weird, my superpower, but I think I’m very in the moment. You know, when I’m at work, I’m at work and they get and it gets my full attention. And when I’m at home, I’m at home and it gets my full attention. And I think I had to learn how to
be entirely immersed in whatever I was doing and just rid myself of the guilt because there’s no doubt when you’re in that time, that period of of life, you know, you’re always feeling guilty. You mum guilt never leaves. You always am I good enough as a mother? Am I good enough as a partner, as a daughter, as a friend, as a worker, all of those things. And I think for me I had to just try and let that go because it is what it is. You know, I am a mum, so do my best.
Melissa Doyle (15:28.844)
And I’m a partner and I’m a I’m a daughter and I’m a friend and I’m a worker and do my best. And you know, I always reminded myself it was a choice. I I chose to do breakfast television. I loved it. I didn’t have to do it. No one was holding a gun to my head. But I just had to make it work in a way that I felt good about. And so
Yeah, look, you know, luckily the kids are fine. They turned out okay and I loved my job and it was such a part of who I was. So I hoped that I set them a good example. you know, mum who worked hard, who reached the top of her career that she wanted, who thrived, who could show them that you too can do what you want to do, and you’ll find a way to make it work.
Jess Spendlove (16:14.572)
I never want to have a blanket like you have it all. But, you know, I think when we think about the things that matter in in people’s lives, you know, there is the career, there’s the family, and I wouldn’t even split that into, you know, personal relationship and then also children, health, you know, is all of these big buckets. And I’m sure that took a lot of trade offs and prioritizations. But yeah, I I look at you as someone who your career I would say is as exciting if not
you know, more exciting than than ever from an outsider. You’re doing so many incredible things and you know, don’t know you all that well, but I have some insights. I have met John before. I was seated next to him at a a a Giants Women’s Luncheon once and you were presenting and I remember saying, gosh, I love Mel, she’s just the best. She’s just got this presence about her and he’s like
Yeah, me too. She’s my wife. and and you know, from what I see, amazing relationships with your children. They you took your daughter to Europe and I just look at that and I go, I really admire what you have been able to create and cultivate, which I have no doubt has has been, like I said, trade off some priorities.
Melissa Doyle (17:27.598)
I love it that you use the word priorities. That’s what I’ve always adhered to. You know, people ask about work life balance and and I don’t think I’ve ever found balance. But priorities. you know, I look back and I’m sure most of us in your twenties, your priorities are really different. They’re building your career. They’re if you have to work seven days a week, that’s okay. Or maybe it’s having a great time, or maybe it’s finding a partner. my thirties was sunrise days, small children. So my priorities were
those two factors, you know, my family and my job. And then once I got into my forties, my kids were teenagers and it was a little bit different. Now I’m in my fifties, my priorities are quite different than they were twenty five years ago. And so I think it’s for me it’s been about recognizing what those are. I’m spending more time now trying to be a little bit healthier and stronger and go to the gym more than I probably have in a long time. I walk the dog, you know, that’s a that’s a a non negotiable for me and her every day.
But that’s such a joy. my parents are aging and my mother in law has been unwell. So I feel really lucky that I’m in a point in my life where I can support them and take my dad to doctor appointments and things he needs. And so my priorities, yeah, are different. And I think I’ve always just readjusted those as I’ve needed to. Mm. And yeah, you can’t
do everything. You just can’t well, I couldn’t do everything. And the old saying about, you know, was it Quentin Bryce who said, you can do it all, just not at the same time. pick what it is that matters to you right now. Because that’s okay. It’ll be different in five years or ten years. Or it might have been different five years ago. And that that’s okay. That’s why we’re, you know, we’re malleable and we’re humans and we’re organic and we move and we change and we grow. Yeah. What are things that you can let go of? Who cares if the house is a little bit messier than you’d like?
Who cares if you’re not serving gourmet meals every night? As long as everyone’s getting fed and they’re healthy. I think I just recognised that there were some things over the years that I just had to let go of and that was okay. And then I would come back to them in time.
Jess Spendlove (19:33.358)
And was that again another just internal kind of reflection piece of you just going Just that’s not the big stuff.
Melissa Doyle (19:40.174)
There’s only so much more I can do. Let’s do what has to be done. And you know, John always taught me control the controllable. Mm-hmm And that’s my motto in life. And so I think it was a case of these are the things that I have to manage and control and you know, non negotiables. Other things will be okay. I’ll get to them when I get to them. And some things you can just kick down the road and that’s okay.
Jess Spendlove (20:03.416)
How much do you think having a a loving, supportive, incredible partner who you’ve been with for over thirty years now, I believe, or marriage for thirty years, so probably more. How much do you think that’s critical to everything you’ve just described here? Having that right teammate and
Melissa Doyle (20:19.072)
Yeah. Look, I don’t ever want to anyone that doesn’t have that, I think you can still do amazing things. For me, it has been integral, you know. I particularly doing shift work as I did for so long, you know, getting up at three o’clock in the morning and going to work at four. John was there with the children and would get them up. Then we would have a nanny come in when he left for work at seven and then she’d leave when I got home at eleven or twelve, whatever it would be.
Yeah, there’s th I I couldn’t I I personally would have really I don’t think I could have done what I’ve done without him being able to support me and the children. And I and I also look at it that there’s been times over our career where he’s been foot to the floor going for it. And I’ve had times where I’ve been foot to the floor and and, you know, going for it. And and you’ve gotta ebb and flow a little bit.
So one of the things that John did in the in the middle of the sunrise years when it was at most intense was started his own business. So he had the flexibility to be able to drop everything. Like I’d get a call, the miners in Beaconsfield have been found. We’re flying you to Tasmania tonight, it’s eight o’clock on a Sunday, pack your toothbrush, you’re going, don’t know how long you’ll be there for. that’s an example of one that I was there for, you know, nearly two weeks.
Yeah, I needed a partner at home to be able to pick up the pieces and and manage everything and and handle the family because I’m in the type of job that I can be called away at any time for I don’t know how long. So I I couldn’t have done it without his support, without the flexibility, without me saying, Hey, you know, it’s all on you this week. and then me in turn other times where he’s been busy or needing to travel or do whatever.
Jess Spendlove (22:03.32)
Mm.
Melissa Doyle (22:04.108)
was his priority at that time for me to say to him, Okay, I’ve got this, you go.
Jess Spendlove (22:08.746)
And I guess like you said, you know, there can be all the conversation and communication, but a lot of it for you can be reactively or at different in the moment and and you know, I try and entering motherhood is an interesting, you know, time point, things shift, you change biologically nearly overnight. And you know, that that obviously you the the father’s
life shifts as well, but it it’s just potentially not at that same rate and and really finding that new groove, I guess, in the different chapters, whether it’s starting a family or a different career point or starting a business or transitioning and yeah, I think the the communication piece is something which sounds like you guys were just constantly in that in that communication, not just probably with each other, but potentially with your children as well, which I’m sure was fundamental to the
relationship that you have with
Melissa Doyle (23:04.898)
this team, you know, all of you, kids included, you know, we’re this little team of four. And particularly when the children were small and I would be going away, we would do a little chart on the fridge and they’d cross out the days that mummy was gone. And that was hard for me to, you know, as a mum leave them and but I knew they were okay. And one of the things John and I used to say to each other was when you’re traveling, don’t feel guilty. Don’t don’t spend the whole time when you’re in London for work.
feeling bad ’cause you’re not at home and you’re not doing what you would be doing if you were at home. Go focus on what you’ve got to do. I’ve got this. And then it would flip around and then it would be his time to go and do something and I’d say the same. Go out for dinner. Go get a great night’s sleep in that hotel room on your own, you know, go enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got this at home. And I think just being able to do that freely was was a great way to be able to work. I remember when
Jess Spendlove (23:52.33)
Yeah.
Melissa Doyle (24:01.92)
early days of sunrise we took the show to Hawaii for a week and I brought the family because Talia was I think six months old and I was still feeding her and Nick was two so of course I I had to bring them all. And I just remember thinking I spent the whole week feeling I wasn’t doing either of my roles well enough. Because when I was on air all I could think about was John was in the hotel room with the two little ones. When I’m in the hotel room all I could think about was all my colleagues are out there doing stories and bonding and spending time together.
And I realised that it was really hard to have the two for me to to marry the two roles at the same time and the same place. So that’s why when I would travel I knew everything was okay at home. And when I was at home, you know, I I’d I I just had to separate them in my head as much as anything.
Jess Spendlove (24:48.93)
And like you said, I think it is that being present, you know, there’s so many times well not so many times, but I I I kind of have this conversation with myself, you know, the days on the time I have with Millie. Be present. Put the phone away as much as possible. Like that little that that kind of stuff and just really be there. Play
Melissa Doyle (25:06.776)
Sit on the floor and read books and play because truly you will blink. I She’ll be at school and she’ll want to go and play with her friends. my kids are twenty five and twenty two and I think I I blinked and suddenly, you know, their friendship group is obviously more important and it’s meant to be, but you know, they fly the nest and they’re doing their own things and it’s gorgeous. I mean it’s glorious to watch and it’s what’s meant to happen. But everyone says to you it goes really fast and it really does. So I think
Jess Spendlove (25:10.87)
I feel like I have.
Melissa Doyle (25:36.642)
Yeah, if it meant that I had, you know, X number of years where it was a little intense and I didn’t have the social life I maybe do now or whatever, then big deal. You know, I I I feel so blessed to have had and have a a lovely, happy, healthy family. And I wanted to spend my time with them. You know, there’s nowhere else I’d rather be. There’s nobody else I’d rather be with than them. So, yes, soak up every minute. I think no one talks about the fun and the joy of it all. It’s
It’s wonderful, it’s gorgeous. Especially when they’re little, they’re just fabulous.
Jess Spendlove (26:09.762)
I love hearing as someone who is career driven and has a a fantastic career and you’ve done so so many things now and at such a high level that there is this nearly not acceptance, but it’s okay to be that woman and be the mother and I nearly think, you know, at times we have to kind of compete with this. Or for me it nearly feels like this polarity of trying to go, am I doing too much or am I am I putting too many too much time here? But
It’s going, this is who I am, this is my purpose, I know who I am, and just, you know, being very in intentional. Because I guess the thing I reflect on is I want to have the relationship with her when I’m older. You know, I look at you, you’re going to Paris with your daughter for I think it was a bit delayed because of COVID, but not everybody’s doing that with their children in their 20s, going on holidays and spending that time. So you’ve really cultivated such a special bond with them.
Melissa Doyle (27:06.19)
And don’t think it makes a difference whether you’re a working parent or not. I mean, let’s not you know, pi it’s all about choice for a start. I think if you work or you you choose to stay at home, then hey, didn’t our mothers and grandmothers and you know, forebears fight for us to have the option and the choice to do what felt right to us. So I think first of all, it’s not it doesn’t it doesn’t make a difference whether you’re a stay at home mum or a working mum. It’s about investing in
in the relationship and I think I hope my children always knew they came first. Yeah, they knew that mum had an intense job, but I think they always knew they came first. There might have been times where I was away and I I, you know, wanted to be at home and there was things that I missed. And do I regret some of those? Absolutely. But I hope they understood. I think they did that that’s what I did and who I was. It didn’t mean I loved them any less or
you know, wanted to be with them any less, that was just what mum did, just the same as that’s what dad does. you know, I think sometimes we have a conversation that’s quite different between working mums and working dads. Nobody ever questions the bonds that a father and son might have if dad works. so yeah, I I you know, I I think that’s really important to know that my kids, they always come first.
But I have a job and and it means that when I’m with them, yeah, I’m I’m really, really with them.
Jess Spendlove (28:36.366)
You know, one thing we were kind of talking about a little bit before we started today was I guess not just what you’ve done and achieved, but how you’ve managed to do that. I think from a for for me I’m particularly interested in like energy and and health and and performance and to sustain success, you know, i in any field, whether we’re talking business, whether we’re talking
elite sport, the military, the media, whatever, industry. And you’re someone I really look to and go, you know, you you you have done that. And yes, you’ve said there’s been chapters and times, but you know, if thinking about it now, and I’m, you know, sure it’s evolved, have there been anchor points or habits or rituals for yourself, for your health, physically, mentally, emotionally, that you think have enabled you to to continue to show up, to continue to perform, to continue to thrive?
Melissa Doyle (29:30.51)
that’s a really hard question. I don’t know. I think I’m a little bit of a go-with-the-flow person, you know, I I I will roll with it sometimes. I don’t necessarily think I’ve always prioritised my own health. Sometimes that’s just had to take a back seat ’cause I’ve been busy. That’s a really when I say that out loud, that sounds so slack.
But yeah, there’s definitely times where I probably could have spent a little bit more time, I don’t know, exercising and looking after myself, but I just didn’t have the mental capacity. and if I’m really flat chat, that’s the first thing I drop off the list, which I know is totally wrong. I I fully understand the whole oxygen mask on you first, blah blah blah. But I just couldn’t do it. And that’s okay, that’s how I was.
Jess Spendlove (30:21.058)
Reality of survival.
Melissa Doyle (30:22.344)
And reality of survival for me. Whereas I know I’ve got friends who are, you know, they they prioritise it. They’ll get up five thirty in the morning and go to the gym if that’s the only window they have and more power to them. but that just wasn’t me. I I’m I think my default is when I’m completely stressed and flat out, the first thing I would do is just take a few things off the list and it would be my own health, which is I know it’s wrong but it that’s how it was.
So yeah, look, I don’t know, non negotiables along the way. I think it’s just I don’t know, I feel like it’s just always been that that need in me, that fire to keep striving, to keep learning, to keep doing something and trying to nail it and then do something else and I don’t even know what it is that has motivated me. God, I feel like this is such a deep deep question. Think about it. but it’s just that constant
constant desire to know I’ve done something and I’ve done it to the best of my ability. I know it’s a cliche and we all do it, but I just, you know, there’s n there’s never been a bigger critic of my work than myself. I’m the first person to come away from something and and berate myself if I don’t think I did the best job I could have done. so, you know, I I really believe in bringing it.
Otherwise if you can’t then maybe that’s not for you on that day or give it to somebody else. you know, either do it and do it the best you can or don’t do it. So I think just that constant fire has probably just kept me going. I don’t know if that really answers your question.
Jess Spendlove (31:57.198)
You know, I mean it’s it’s kind of w whatever it feels, you know, subjectively in the moment. And I think even, you know, you’ve mentioned a few times you go with the flow and and to be someone who’s clearly a high you know, high achiever, high performer, but to also be able to do that because often I think a lot of the time p people who are very juvenile motivated are are very trying to force the conditions. So maybe that i even within itself is a is a is a big part of that.
Melissa Doyle (32:24.546)
Yeah, I don’t think I’m a big overthinker.
Jess Spendlove (32:26.53)
Hm. Well I wish I wasn’t. Give me some of that.
Melissa Doyle (32:30.51)
But I think I’m probably so focused on the moment and what I’m doing at that moment and I’m not one to sit down and do five year plans and ten year plans or or look at the bigger picture of something. my god, I’ve got a great idea, I really want to write a book. Okay, let’s sit down and write book. You know, don’t necessarily spend all this time strategizing and who’s it gonna reach and what am I how am I gonna do it and blah blah blah. Just do it. You know, just just get on with it. Just just get up and go. So I think maybe that’s what I’ve done.
Don’t know if it’s right or wrong, but so far it’s worked.
Jess Spendlove (33:02.862)
And when you talk about preparation, I mean y you’ve done some incredible things like most recently, Oprah. You know, how how do you prepare for these big projects, big moments? I guess both leading up to it, but also as you’re about to go onto stage. Like have you got a little Mel Doyle pre-Oprah interview routine? Like is there
Melissa Doyle (33:25.046)
My pre opera routine. No, you wish. do the work. Preparation. It’s preparation, preparation, preparation. I write notes, I do my research. Whether it be Oprah or any other interview, I’ve done my work. I’ve read everything I can find, I’ve I’ve done the research, and I will go in as fully prepared as I can be, which then gives me the space to then go with it.
you know, to roll with it, to adapt to an interview. You might go into an interview with, you know, in your head all the topics that you want to cover, but then somebody says something and you’ve got to run with it. And suddenly you take a sharp right and you’re following that path. So I think as a journalist that has been my job, to always go in, yeah, having having a plan, but be ready to to take it elsewhere. Oprah, look, I just watched as much as I could, read as much as I could, listened to as much as I could.
tried to get as much of her voice and her messaging and her philosophy and all of those things in my head so that when it came time to interview her, I knew what she would want teased from her, if that makes sense. You know, I I knew that I what her hit points would be and how would I get how would I step make sure I stepped her to those.
But having said that, she’s a professional, so you know, I could have just sat there and not said a word and she would have known what to do. don’t really have rituals. I think it comes down to if I’ve done my prep and I can go into something confident that I’ve done all my work and research, then I feel ready and confident. What I wear and how I look is a big part of it, which might sound a little frivolous, but you know, having the right outfit, having hair and makeup done
knowing I’m looking as good as I can before I walk out on stage in front of ten thousand people helps the head, you know, that’s such a part of it. You don’t want to be feeling uncomfortable or not feeling like yourself. So that definitely plays into it. And then, I’m a pacer. So I’m that person that’ll be just pacing back and forward before I I it’s almost like I go into a zone and
Melissa Doyle (35:41.268)
Sonia, who has done my hair makeup since, gosh, the early days of sunrise often does me for big things and knows me well and she laughs that I kind of go into this zone where I’m like, all right, can’t talk. My head’s in it. I’m so fully immersed and everything is crammed in there and I’m in that place. And then I can walk out on stage and do it. and I think too, there’s gotta be an element of just going, Okay, I know this. This is what I can do. Let’s go. You know, let’s go have fun.
I would imagine an athlete running out onto a footy field who’s done all the training, all the prep, knows his or her play, knows their skills, knows what they can do. Then you just gotta go, okay, the bell’s gone, bang, let’s do it. And have fun. Yeah. And all of that hard work is like muscle memory and it’s all culminating to this moment. But go enjoy it. You know, I’ve got I think it’s too really important to always remind yourself why you play
Jess Spendlove (36:24.078)
Yeah.
Melissa Doyle (36:38.72)
sport, why you are a journalist, why you might be whatever it is that you’re excelling at in your field, it’s because you love it. You know, it’s what lights your fire. So enjoy it. Have fun in those moments. I think I’ve always tried to just relish every single interview and every experience and every story I’ve told and every place I’ve been and take away from that I’m living my dream.
So have a great time.
Jess Spendlove (37:09.1)
Amazing. And with the you know, with Oprah and all the preparation and and ha and and obviously such a well known, you know, public figure and
Melissa Doyle (37:19.852)
Myself just quietly. Don’t pretend I don’t want you to think that I’m walking in all confident. I was pacing before the nervous. I was so nervous. I think I was more nervous that I just didn’t want to let her down. I’m interviewing this media icon. My biggest fear was that we’d do the show and she’d go, okay, well she was all right. And so anyway, she grabbed my hand before we went up on stage and she held my wrists and she just looked me in the eye and she said, You’ve got this. We’ve chosen you, you’re gonna be great, you’ve got this.
Jess Spendlove (37:25.826)
For sure. More patience than normal.
Melissa Doyle (37:49.804)
Go get And that was just the most extraordinary thing she could have done. And then we had a ball. Yeah. So anyway, sorry, I just didn’t want you to think that I was this amazing confident, you know, I’ve got this. I was pooping myself.
Jess Spendlove (38:01.644)
Was there anything about your interactions or conversations or observations with her that surprised you or just made you confirm, no, this is exactly, you know, the the kind of what I was expecting? Yeah.
Melissa Doyle (38:14.356)
Luckily, look, she was fabulous and you know, the old never meet your idol. Well, I’m I’m glad I did and she was as as fabulous as I had hoped. I think what I took away from that experience was her authenticity. You know, she walks the talk and not that I’m comparing myself to her, don’t get me wrong, but we’re both storytellers. We’re we’re both, you know, that is our role to give voice to other people’s stories, to issues, to whatever it might be. And I and
She clearly relished that role and did it so well for so long because she believed in what she was doing. And I think it was that reminder of if you’ve found what it is, whatever it might be, whether you’re a doctor or a basketball star or whatever, but if you found what it is that you feel runs through every fibre of you, you know, that that’s what you are here to do, that’s what excites you and thrills you.
And lets you get up at three o’clock in the morning, no matter how tired you are, because you can’t wait to get to work, then that’s so lucky. You know, it doesn’t matter what it is. So I think I looked at her and I thought, you’ve you definitely are doing what you were meant to do. I hope I’m doing what I was meant to do. You know, it still excites me. I d I’ve never had a day where I wished I was doing something else. Or when someone says, you know, if you weren’t doing this career, what would you do?
I honestly don’t know. So I think I’m really lucky that I recognise that and that I was able to do it because I know not everybody gets that privilege of doing what, you know, they dream of doing.
Jess Spendlove (39:52.61)
And I mean outside of the, you know, the the T V and the radio and the books and the podcasts and and all of this, there’s another big part of you which is the the foundations and the you know, the you know, you’re on the giants board and you’ve got a big relationship there. So you’ve got these other interest pieces as well. can you share a bit more about them and and and how they all come into the
Melissa Doyle (40:16.782)
I think every single thing is anchored in the same principle for me and it’s storytelling. journalism television has always been about telling stories, be they news stories, be they somebody’s story, somebody who’s been through something, something that’s happening in the world. I do Smooth FM. Same. It’s connecting with listeners, it’s it’s sharing feelings, music.
What you’re doing on a Saturday when you tune in. You know, you you’re part of this community. It’s this connection point, and that’s what storytelling is all about. the Giants Board has been that was such a learning experience. That was one of those things where I talked earlier about, you know, knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses, probably would have put that on the the weaker category. so went and studied and, you know, did the company director’s course and asked a lot of questions and
Definitely had moments in the early days where I’d look around this board table at these phenomenal businessmen and women and and not understand half of the language they used because I’d never worked in those corporate environments. But having a moment of going, all right, well I know what I bring. I have to I have to look at what my strengths are, which are quite different to everybody else’s around the table. So lean into what is I bring and and not compare myself to everybody else. So I think whatever your whatever you’re taking on or whatever your field, you know, what is it that makes you
Jess so good at what you do that’s different to somebody else doing it. and and play to your strengths and and yeah, just r remind yourself what what it is that you bring. You know, we’re all cogs in a wheel, aren’t we? we’ve all we’re all just as important as one another, but we all bring something different. So I think very long answer to that question. But yeah, everything has come back to sharing stories, short storytelling, the giants. I mean, it’s entertainment. It’s all about
How do we entice families to pull together to pop their orange on, jump in the car on a Saturday afternoon, drive out to Homebush, watch some amazing elite athletes run around, do their thing to the best of their ability and have a great afternoon out for everybody and sing the song and all feel part of a tribe and go home, you know, having eaten too many hot chips and giants of one and you’ve sung the song all the way home. I mean that connection, that that being part of something.
Melissa Doyle (42:41.324)
I think is what we as humans need every day, whether it’s part of a footy club, whether it’s listening to a radio station and knowing you’re part of that community, whether it’s watching a T V show and feeling you’re part of that. it’s it’s all those connections and and yeah, telling each other’s stories along the way. With
Jess Spendlove (42:57.058)
Your book Age Against the Machine, what was the process that you went through to write the book and decide what was the content that you were putting in there?
Melissa Doyle (43:06.104)
A lot of it were questions that I had around things that were happening in my life and you know, as a as a fifty year old woman I I assumed it probably was quite similar. But we also I mean, some of the things I wrote a chapter about empty nest and it was the same year that my son had left home and he moved overseas, he went to college in the US. you know, as a family we were
grieving for want of another term of him suddenly leaving and that was really that was quite emotional. That was a really hard thing for us to navigate as a family, as I’m sure, you know, everyone does the same. You want them to fly the nest and then when they do, you’re suddenly looking around going, my God, you’ve gone, I miss you. navigating parents as they get older, that’s hard. We talked a lot about all the things that you you grieve, you know, you grieve yourself in a way. You grieve the way you used to look, the way you used to move, the way you used to be seen
in the world. We interviewed Paulina Poroscova, supermodel. She talked about walking into a party and heads no longer turn. And you know, she said for so long in her life, everywhere she went, everyone just stared at her and noticed her ’cause she’s so extraordinarily beautiful and then suddenly you reach an age when that no longer happens. And it might sound, you know, fairly trivial to some, but for her that was the core of who she was. And so you’re grieving these parts of you. You know, we’re
A lot of us are either losing parents or parents are getting sick and that’s a really hard thing to navigate. So we talked about end of life planning, you know, I don’t know about you, but have you ever had that conversation with family or friends on what you wanna have happen when you die or how you wanna die or where you wanna be or how you wanna be remembered or you know, even just the logistics of leading up to getting older and
power of attorney and also I think there was just there’s so many things that I feel we don’t always talk about. Relationships, got a bunch of single girlfriends and had them all around a dinner table and plied them with far too much Chardonnay and got them to tell me about dating life in your 50s and 60s. my God, funny stories. But you there’s things that we’re not always totally honest with and we might only see the glossy, fabulous parts of it, but there’s a lot of things that are really
Melissa Doyle (45:19.726)
Tough to navigate navigate. So I think we, you know, my my mission was to talk about everything in the book. Good, bad, and ugly. and and also make sure we reminded ourselves to celebrate the wins, celebrate getting older. It’s a privilege. Alternative’s pretty crappy. but yeah, how do you how do you stay part of a community? How do you stay true to yourself? How do you remind yourself what your purpose is?
Jess Spendlove (45:26.05)
Okay.
Jess Spendlove (45:46.589)
Sounds to me as well that navigated on your own terms. Yeah.
Melissa Doyle (45:50.344)
And aging is so different for everybody, you know? It’s it’s almost like a a concept of thought in a way, because you age biologically, but you’re also it’s a it’s an emotional thing. You know, aging is is represented in the bedroom, in your bank accounts, in in going out into the world. Like there’s just so many touch points to it and everybody handles it differently and everybody’s affected by it differently.
one of the questions we asked in the book, we kept coming back to the concept of what’s the difference between becoming elderly and becoming an elder. So, you know, for us elderly was almost a negative. You know, you just you’re giving into it. You’re sitting in the chair and life is passing you by, as opposed to becoming an elder where you’re sharing maybe, yeah, what you’ve learnt or who you are, or you know, the role of a matriarch in society. So, you know, there was a few
Jess Spendlove (46:24.086)
Mm.
Jess Spendlove (46:37.356)
Why?
Melissa Doyle (46:44.214)
guiding principles that we came back to on on yeah w what what matters and I think purpose is one other word that we just kept going back to. What’s your purpose? You know, and it’s very, very different. Your purpose in your twenties and thirties or maybe raising a family changes as you get older and family leaves or maybe you’re no longer in a relationship or in a job. So what’s your purpose then? How do we how do we navigate that together?
Jess Spendlove (47:10.635)
What’s what’s next or what’s coming up that’s exciting you that you might be able to to share or let us know what you’re
Melissa Doyle (47:18.03)
I’m doing House of Wellness with lovely Shane Crawford. We do that on a Tuesday. Season one, two, five. Season five. Coming up to six will be in this year. I it’s chugging along. We’re having so much fun.
Jess Spendlove (47:31.118)
I do love the outfit debrief and the question going, where’s your shirt?
Melissa Doyle (47:33.856)
Very much I’m like, well, let’s lean into that. Yeah. well, you know, I’m I sort of feel like I like seeing women of my age and what they’re wearing, so you know, I may as well do what it is that I enjoy learning about. he’s a delight to work with, Croft is lovely. We have so much fun. I’m loving it. It is it is fun. We’re exploring all sorts of health and wellness things, and you know, as you know better than anyone, but health and wellness is so much more than drinking your
green smoothie and doing a twelve K run, isn’t it? It’s about making sure that you’re connected with your community, that you’re not lonely, that you’re finding things that bring you joy. it’s all of those things. So yeah, we’re having a lovely time. I wrote Age Against the Machine during COVID years, so Hardy Grant’s re releasing that in the new year. it’ll be called the Age Advantage. So it’s all about women and aging.
all the things that come with it, your own perceptions of how you feel getting older, outside perceptions, how society sees older women, the good and the bad, and then all the things that you need to do. You know, how do you look after your mind and your body and your family and we talk about everything from grief, end of life planning, navigating empty nest, women in power, politics, business, changing careers, you know, there’s
Aging has just got so many parts of it. It’s not just, you know, I’ve got a couple of extra wrinkles on my forehead. There’s just so much more to navigate. So I loved doing that. It that felt really it was such a personal project because I wrote it as I was experiencing all of those things. And like any journo, you know, when you’ve got questions, you go find answers. So writing that book felt really, really significant. I think I felt as though I was writing something that mattered.
you know, something that would hopefully resonate with even just one reader and and answer some of her questions and and navigate all of the things that I’m going through and I know I’m not alone.
Jess Spendlove (49:36.222)
And the spaces, you know, the the research is I mean we’re only really at the infancy, which is wild to to think about. We’re only really starting to get some some data f more from the the health lens, I guess I’m I’m thinking about there from the peri and the menopause space. But I have no doubt that, you know, th that is is probably most of what would be getting slightly updated or or just a reflect. Yeah, thank goodness.
Melissa Doyle (50:00.83)
Yeah, like it was only men’s bodies studied until like US health studies until twenty until t the year two thousand were just men. They like they had didn’t even study female bodies in the way that they do now. So I think it’s by twenty thirty the world’s population over sixty will double. So we’re we’re you know, we’re all getting older. But God, you’re getting older from the day you’re born.
Jess Spendlove (50:23.287)
You know, hopefully we’re living you know, we want to. That’s that’s what I think about now. I I want you know, it’s a privilege and how do we do it well?
Melissa Doyle (50:30.688)
I want to hit a hundred. Yeah. so I love it that we’re having conversations so much more now. We are seeing so many amazing people aging on our screens and in front of us and in politics and in all the roles they play. Great, you know, you can’t be what you can’t see. So I think we’re definitely shifting in our attitudes and perceptions around aging. so yeah, that was a that was a fabulous, exciting thing to
Jess Spendlove (50:57.614)
And on the connection piece that you mentioned before, you know, these other aspects of health, that’s been a big part of the evolution of of my work, you know, away from just nutrition, which yes, in the elite athlete and military space, like I can own the niche of performance nutrition, but my own interest and evolution of a career has spanned much broader now. And I’m very grateful that you have contributed to my new book, which talks about
the five, you know, rhythms of sustainable performance, which in the context of that for me is nutrition, exercise, stress and recovery, sleep, and connection. And the connection chapter is to your values, your purpose and your people. Because the social health component of health is actually the most important. They’re all important, but the loneliness epidemic and how connected but yet disconnected we are and yeah just
Finding joy and fun and why are we doing the things. So huge thank you for you contributing and an endorsement. You’re actually on the cover with Bronte Campbell and then Hugh Van Keilenberg’s on the just the the people that have supported I I’m incredibly honored and a little bit shocked by. So
Melissa Doyle (52:16.974)
Congrats to you. You know your stuff. You’re good at what you do. And I’m glad you wrote it. You know, it’ll help a lot of people. So more power to you. So don’t be shocked. it’s what you’re meant to be doing. It’s what, you same. I think the word purpose is so extraordinarily powerful for all of us. You know, what is your purpose? What is what’s the reason that you get out of bed every day? What do you want to do with who you are and what you’ve got in the world and it’s what you’re doing with yours. So
Jess Spendlove (52:42.626)
Yay. Thank you. I I really appreciate that. As we get to the end of the episode, I have a question that I like to ask all of my guests, which is what three things, behaviors, buckets, whatever we want to call them, but what three things help you, Mel Doyle, stay at the top?
Melissa Doyle (53:03.638)
I think finding joy in it, enjoying it, you know, actually you’ve you if you’ve got to the top of your field, you’ve worked hard to get there. So make sure you smell the roses, you know, make sure you actually sit back and have a look around and go, I I’m here, I I did this. Well done. Pat yourself on the back if you need to, but but enjoy it, you know, actually appreciate.
all of the hard work that you did to get there. So I think that appreciation, that gratefulness is is one. I think th authenticity and being true to yourself. I think I I don’t want to suddenly pretend to be someone I’m not or do something that doesn’t resonate with me. So I think it’s more you’re more wanting to stay at the top when it’s who you are, you know, it it it goes through every
pour in your body. and also I think just having ways of loving who you are, who yourself is. You know, for me it’s now walking my dog around the park and having moments every day where I’m looking up and the sky might be blue, hopefully that day. And I’m I’m just I’m just taking a moment to savour
Who I am and where I am, you know, I feel so privileged. I’m I’m healthy, I’m loved, I’m fulfilled, I’m challenged. All of those things that I want and I’ve got them and I’m just so appreciative. And and making sure that I remind myself every day that look at I’m I’m really lucky, you know, I’m really lucky. So I don’t know if that really answers your question.
Jess Spendlove (54:51.598)
I mean yeah it’s it’s whatever speaks to the person and I think you know with without saying it’s a gratitude practice, like what you’ve described how you operate is you have mindfulness and gratitude practices just in how you are, in in your ability to be present and your, you know, this phase of life, you know, having the time and the space to to take the dog for a walk, be in nature and and take in these little things. So
Melissa Doyle (55:18.75)
Yeah, I hope so. And revel in the joy of seeing my children flourish and grow up and my husband happy in all of the things that he does and and the things that that, you know, make me feel fulfilled. Just yeah, don’t don’t don’t put all the work in and spend all these years, you know, labouring on things to not actually enjoy them and have a moment of going, This is this is fantastic. I’ve got a roof over my head. It worked. So far so good.
Jess Spendlove (55:48.406)
Yeah, stop, pause, take stop. And maybe if it’s not so innately within you, have those practices to to do that and and to cultivate that. I think there’s a lot of great wisdom and lessons in that. So we might land the plane there. Mel Doyle, thank you so very much for finding time, making time, sharing so much with myself and and the audience today. Very grateful to have you. Thank you.
Melissa Doyle (56:15.928)
Thanks, Jess. Thanks for having me.
Jess Spendlove (56:18.738)
otherwise I wanna thank you all for joining again. If you’ve loved today’s conversation, make sure you share it with a friend, a family member. I’m sure there’s plenty of people who would love to hear Mel’s conversation. And otherwise I’ll be back again next week with another episode helping you all not only reach the top, but sustainably stay there. I’ll see you all then.