What if you could shift the energy of the room by raising your consciousness? Kate Kendall is a yogi and breathwork facilitator who helps people live less franticly.
Stillness is our most underutilised tool we have for productivity and fulfilment. It’s often mistaken for weakness or being unproductive but is essential for avoiding burnout.
Kate explains how to reclaim presence in the body and mind by reframing recovery as a strategy.
In this episode Kate shares:
- Why breath is one of the most underutilised performance tools available
- The impact of modern life on the way we breathe
- Why nose breathing matters and how it influences health and performance
- The difference between formal and informal breathwork practices
- What nervous system regulation actually means
- Simple breathing techniques to become calmer and more focused
- Why leaders can shift the energy of a room through their own presence
- The relationship between breath, intuition and creativity
- How to cultivate more stillness in a fast paced world
- Why nature, movement and simple rituals regulate the nervous system
- The role of awareness in making better decisions
- Why the sacred is often found in the ordinary moments of everyday life
Key Quotes
“Awakening is just a series of softenings.”
“You can lead by simply shifting your energy in the room.”
“Nothing changes if nothing changes.”
Episode Resources
PRE-ORDER For the Long Run by Jess Spendlove 👉 https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/n423Ea
Kate Kendall
Website: https://activeyogi.com.au/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/activeyogi
Podcast: Where We Soften
Substack: https://substack.com/@activeyogi
Jessica Spendlove Website – www.jessicaspendlove.com
Jessica Spendlove Keynotes – JessicaspendloveKeynotes – Jessica Spendlove
The High-Performance Profile Quiz https://jessicaspendlove.com/quiz/
Jess Spendlove Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jess_spendlove_dietitian/?hl=en
Jess Spendlove LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-spendlove-64173bb8/
About Your Host
Jessica Spendlove | Wellbeing Speaker & High Performance Strategist
Jess Spendlove is an international wellbeing and high performance speaker, coach, and advisor. With over 15 years of experience across corporate leadership, elite sport and the military she is known for helping ambitious leaders and teams optimise energy, build resilience, and sustain peak performance.
As one of Australia’s leading performance dietitians and a trusted voice in executive wellbeing, Jess delivers science-backed strategies that empower individuals, teams and organisations to thrive under pressure and achieve long-term success.
Episode Transcript
The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy
speaker-0 (00:00.076)
The whole longevity talk. I’m all for it, but it’s taking us out of the present moment. And I think it could be having the exact opposite effect. Yogis were like the first biohackers. Sacred is in the mundane. Let’s get out of the spiritual closet and talk about the things that bring us back into alignment because they work.
speaker-1 (00:24.044)
the most accessible tool we have to do that is breath.
speaker-0 (00:28.554)
It is this incredible tool that we can use in pretty much any situation, and I think it’s being underutilized. Like you can lead by just shifting your energy in the room, just by the way you’re holding yourself, just by the way, the way that you’re breathing. It’s so
speaker-1 (00:45.486)
We are just in this constant feeling of being behind. Yes.
speaker-0 (00:49.56)
We stress about am I getting the right supplements? Am I using the right infrared light? They’re all about ego. There’s an urgency to it. Whereas I think spirit speaks quietly and we’ve gotta be ready in our nervous system to hear that.
speaker-1 (01:06.776)
Kate Kendall, welcome to Stay at the Top. I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation, and I think this is going to open a lot of eyes and ears for people tuning in. One place I’d love to start is personally, I’m a really big believer in leveraging behaviors that we do every single day. For me, in my work, a lot of that is nutrition, including hydration and also sleep. But there’s another behavior.
speaker-0 (01:09.592)
Thanks, yeah? Thanks for having me
speaker-1 (01:36.466)
every single one of us are doing about twenty thousand or so times a day, which not a lot of people really consciously tune into. I’m sure you agree it’s a huge opportunity and it’s gonna shape today’s conversation. But what are the consequences and the knock-on effects of people being unaware of their breath and not breathing correctly?
speaker-0 (02:00.11)
So much already in what you just said. And I love that you do leverage like the simple things and make it like I guess we’re stacking our habits. Because I think we underestimate. Do you think sometimes we underestimate the simple things? Like if I’m feeling off, am I hydrated? Have I had enough to eat? Have I had enough to sleep? Of course, am I breathing well? Like I still, when I started to dive a little bit more into the breath, you know, I’ve been teaching yoga for over 20 years.
And breath was always really profound and it had this really profound effect on my nervous system and how I started to work and live and love and all of the rest of it. It just sort of affected everything. It wasn’t until around seven, eight years ago that I started to dive in a little bit more and to practices outside of yoga as well.
And what I learned as I started to dive into these practices, and you yogis were like they’re kind of, I think of them as the first biohackers. Not that they would think that they were doing that. They weren’t doing anything to achieve a certain kind of well, they were they were breathing in certain ways to achieve states. And mostly they the the end goal for them was enlightenment, samadhi, bliss. for us, I think.
think in a contemporary sort of setting. Yeah, it’s a a nice sort of idea to become enlightened. But I like Richard Rudd, he’s an author. He wrote a he wrote a book called The Jinkies and his definition of enlightenment or awakening is I love it. It’s he says awakening is just a series of softenings. And I think that us lay people in the everyday, not on a mountaintop, you know, meditating for ten hours a day plus, we can all soften.
In certain situations. And a lot of my work is based around that idea of softening and softening, yeah, to awaken. And the breath is a really profound tool for doing that. And yeah, when I started to dive into these practices a little more with with our modern research, I realized how what changed in that was how we’ve been breathing for a certain amount of time and how it’s changed over time and how the way that our breath.
speaker-0 (04:13.196)
the architecture of our face and what we’ve been eating has an effect on our breathing. So it over I mean, if you go back right back to there was this guy, George Caitlin, and he he studied, he he traveled across the Americas. He’s basically historian and adventurer. He traveled across the Americas and he would illustrate, he draw pictures and he’d document what he saw.
And he really noticed that there was these distinct differences between the settlers and the Native Americans that were living in places he’d visit. And he would notice that they were healthy, they were robust, they didn’t get sick like other people would. And he started to wonder why. And
You know, I’m summarizing this, but basically he noticed that they had these strong jaws and they these broad noses. And in talking to people, he learned that they said that the breath was really important to their health, and that actually nose breathing in particular. And it was believed by certain tribes that if
you were to breathe in and out of the mouth that you were letting spirits, evil spirits, so to speak, into the body, and that those evil spirits would then cause harm, illness. And I mean translate that to like now we know mouth breathing, breathing does have a huge knock-on effect. We see asthma, we see sleep apnea, we see stress, we see overwhelm, we see all these sort of maladaptive things that can all
Be a change, like immediately, starting immediately, by just tweaking a few of the things about in the way that we breathe. And there’s this one story that he talks about the women in these tribes and how they’re the silent guardians of the future, because they would be nursing their babies. And if mouths were open, the mother would just close their mouths.
speaker-0 (06:26.07)
And so they were the silent guardians of the future in ensuring that they were breathing through the nose, that was having a direct effect on their future. And I find that so amazing. Like all the way back then, all these ancient wisdom traditions, they’re so all of their information and technologies are so applicable today, to today. But I think we just overcomplicate things.
speaker-1 (06:48.77)
And do you think it’s the environment? Is it because so much of what you’re saying aligns with a lot of my work in in the areas that I speak to on finding that biological rhythm which is from hundred you know, tens, if not hundreds of thousands of years ago, you know, leverage your circadian rhythm, leverage your individual chronotype. And even what I’m hearing here is what I’m imagining now.
historically how we were breathing and and you’ve mentioned anatomically like there have been shifts. Has that been driven though largely by environmental? And if someone is a mouth breather, how can they go about starting to try and rewire that to to be more of a nose breather?
speaker-0 (07:32.396)
Yeah, environmental. So I believe it all started with agriculture and and settling in one place and and growing food and but then also the way that we were eating. So instead of moving away from the hunter gatherer and chewing our food more, we’re started to chew our food less. And so there that that’s where the change in the structure of the face is in the jaw. And then I guess we also have a lot of habits.
in our modern day of sitting a lot, staring at screens like this or like this, and all of this is affecting our posture, which affects our lungs and affects our heart, and then the stress. And if you’re living in an environment an urban environment, there’s so many stresses and there’s so many things coming at us at any one time. I mean, you know, we all know this now. There’s so many, there’s so much stimulation. And all of that is having an effect on the way that we’re breathing. And then in terms of
What can we do right now? Well, you know, Breath by James Nestor. I don’t know if you’ve read it. It came out around COVID, which was perfect timing. I remember reading it, just going, my God, this is such a revelation. So he did this test where he he, you know, you know, you can get the contraptions where you can tape your mouth closed.
So he started off with 30 days of taping his or or blocking his nose. So he could only breathe through the mouth at night. And he noticed almost immediately, like he’s sure he was probably breathing out of his mouth at some point through the night, maybe not all the night, but he noticed an immediate effect the very next day. Drowsy, lethargic, scattered. That was after day night one. You can imagine end of 30 days. And then after the 30 days, he reversed it. He taped his mouth.
And look, I’ve used these contraptions and I you end up there it’s worth sticking it out because you end up the fur for the first few days or week, whatever, with that in your hair and it takes a while to get used to, but you you notice again this effect straight off the bat. And so just that, learning to breathe through the nose. And I, you know, are taking care of our posture as well, whatever practices we have for that, whether you’re in it and it’s individual too.
speaker-0 (09:53.676)
I don’t I don’t know what’s going on for everybody out there. That’s why it’s good to, you know, if you think there’s some issues going on, seek make medical advice, go to a physio, go to an osteo, go to a yoga class, go to a Pilates class. Any and all of the above, if you’ve got the budget for all of that. so I mean these are and the time more so we can change our posture for sure. We can be more aware of it. But in terms of direct breath practices for all of all of these.
speaker-1 (10:05.797)
any and all of the above.
speaker-0 (10:23.526)
I think we can categorize them into formal breath practices and informal breath practices. So the formal practices just for an idea of what I do. And again, not all breath practices are for everybody. Depends where your nervous system is at. But a formal practice might be doing some alternate nostril breathing in the morning. It might be doing some box breathing. So it’s training yourself to breathe in a certain way and just being aware of.
Okay, I’m gonna start the day by breathing in another the nose. I’m gonna expand my breath capacity. You know, I might do some restorative postures that open up my breathing apparatus. This is all gonna affect, having a knock-on effect for the rest of the day. And then the informal practice is okay, day to day sitting here having this conversation with you. I’m mainly speaking, but if I’m gonna be sitting here and listening, I’m gonna be conscious of breathing in and out of the nose.
As I’m sitting at my desk, as I’m talking to someone, as I’m interacting, can I breathe in and out of the nose? And I mean, my one of my breath work instructors, like he is so fanatical about this. And he’ll even say, you know, just be mindful of when you’re s sighing or when you’re yawning and when you’re eating and drinking, not to breathe, you know, not to take big gulps, and it even the way that we’re breathing is gonna eating is gonna affect our breath. But I just think, you know.
Come back to some formal practices when you’re sitting on a yoga mat or on a meditation cushion, or first thing in the morning when you’re sitting up, or last thing at night before you go to bed. and then the informal, just being aware. And then there’s those therapeutic situations, which I love holding space for. So bigger sort of experiences, like breath work journeys where you might be, and there’s, you know, hundreds of techniques, but
you basically going into superventilation and a hypoxic state at some point. And, you know, these practices, yes, people walk away and they feel quite high and they feel amazing, they feel elated, but also it’s a beautiful reset for the nervous system. And quite often we go into these profound, non-ordinary states, and changes can happen in the brain. Healing can happen. I mean, I have people coming to my breath journeys who
speaker-0 (12:45.528)
Have very lucid experiences, they have visions, they have visitations from their grandmother who died ten years ago. I actually was on a plant medicine retreat about four years ago. And we were sitting with a particular mm mm meditation and and a particular medicine on the Friday and the Sunday night, and on the Saturday, it was like an integration day.
and recover day and sort of sit with what had transpired the night before and get it ready for the next day. And on this rest day, there was a breathwork instructor came in and I would say that I had just as profound an experience on that day that I did than I did on the other two medicine journeys. So it’s pretty powerful stuff.
It is this incredible tool that we can use in pretty much any situation and I think it’s being underutilized. I mean more and more people are talking about it, you’re writing about it, and that’s amazing and I think it’s come back into our orbit for a reason because we need
speaker-1 (13:54.84)
Yeah. Well, I’m very lucky you wrote about it in my new book. I wanted to bring in, you know, and and I do talk about breathing and breath work high level simply because of that philosophy I started with on what are the behaviors we’re doing every single day. but for the context of that and this conversation, I wanted to bring in someone who l lives it, breathes it, you know, has the training. you mentioned something which
The nervous system and nervous system regulation feels also quite hot right now, quite a hot topic. I don’t think a lot of people truly understand what that means. And then also the entry point and the power of the breath in helping regulate your nervous system.
speaker-0 (14:40.322)
Yes, it’s very misunderstood. And I think there’s a lot of well-intentioned people out there on Instagram telling us about nervous system regulation who may not fully understand it. And I mean I think it I think the even the experts are still wrapping their head around it and I think our ideas about it are changing all the time. So one of the common misconceptions around nervous system regulation, as far as I can tell, is that to be regulated, we are always in the state of bliss and calm and grounded.
And that’s all well and good. And I think it’s a nice place to make like a default mode as opposed to always being stressed. And I hold space for this three-month-long journey called Spiritually Fit, in which that is our goal is to make our default mode calm regulated. Because I think it’s in that place where we feel most creative, most alive, most inspired. We’re better husbands, wives, people in general. But nervous system regulation is actually all about adapting to the environment that we’re in.
So for example, think of it like this. If you are in a situation where your touch wood house starts to burn, I don’t want you to be in a state of calm and bliss. And it’s okay, I just grab a few things and no, I want you to start breathing faster. I want your heart rate to go up and I want you to get out of there.
Think of regulation also like flexibility. Like we can go to that place of fight, flight, and not stay there. Because we can those sorts of things can happen and we get traumatized by them and we can stay there. Whereas regulation, when we’re when we’re when our nervous system is in a state of flexibility, actually what happens is we go there and we can come back. We can come back to that state of is.
And adapt back and know that we’re safe now when we get to our friend’s house and we can sleep, or all our stuff is okay, you know. So that, yeah, I think it is really that you’re right. I think we we have the wrong idea a lot of the time, and and and the practices, they’re all about you you can use the right ones and you don’t have to have a PhD. Go to enough yoga classes with a skilled yoga teacher, a pranayam teacher, and they’ll teach you that you know, focus on a
speaker-0 (17:01.13)
Exhalation and that’s gonna downregulate, that’s gonna soothe. I always think of the exhalation as like this soothing balm, soothing balm for the nervous system. And then if you’re focusing on say, not even a longer in-breath, but a larger in-breath, and then even a hold or breath retention, antara kumbaka, we call it, that’s more for focus and and a
energizing and of course there’s other breath practices that you can take that are going to give you a quick up leveling I guess energy focus so but it but a a a a nice rule is focus on a long exhalation for down regulating and then when you want to focus I have a little more energy let’s focus on the inhalation and the pause and not an inhalation with a short exhalation we’re talking like equal
or maybe just a little bit longer on the in-breath, because another misconception, you know, have you ever been stressed about something and someone says to you, take a deep breath? And I get the concept of that, but we could probably change it in 99.9% of those situations to exhale long, breathe out slowly, breathe low and slow.
speaker-1 (18:24.654)
Which is the hardest bit. The exhalation, and even for me, and one of my check-in points. And and I feel like admittedly, I’m three weeks into having skipped this weekly practice, and it I’m feeling it because I’ve done yin yoga for so long. Once a week for me, it’s kind of my grounding, it’s my reset for the week, setting the week up, but it is that moment to pause truly.
Be on the mat and how I’m able to either be present or not is my kind of pulse check on where I’m at. But if someone isn’t maybe, you know, thinking that might be a a ritual for them and they operate in their head, they’re busy, they’re on the go, you know, how can they even start on a daily basis? And you’ve mentioned some techniques, but how can they kind of get out of their head and start to get more in in their body?
speaker-0 (19:20.15)
So you can be on the bus, you can be walking, you can be sitting like this with a friend. If I’m having a confronting conversation with someone or what I think is confronting, this is a bit of a go-to. So at first you might want to do it by taking the hands to the abdomen just because it’s like a bit of a comfort, but also you’re better able to feel where you’re breathing into. And it’s a low and slow.
breath into the belly. So just to frame it, besides those changes in the jaw and our neck and how we’re sleeping and what we’re doing and how that’s affected our breath, well, as as a result of that also, we tend to be shallow breathers. We breathe into the chest. So if you catch yourself at any one time, you even just that noticing how’s the breath. And I say that so many times in a yoga class, how’s the breath? And I think
God, that sounds weird, but like really, how’s the breath? And for a lot of the time, we’ll hold the breath. Women in particular will hold in because we don’t want to take up space. We want to have a flat stomach. We don’t want to like let it go. and I just that this idea of okay, every once in a while, noticing how’s the breath.
Until it just becomes second nature. I don’t know if you I don’t know. I don’t I don’t care if someone has to set an alarm like you know, ten times on their phone. So first is to be aware, how’s the breath? And then if it is up here, or if it’s mouth breathing, we close down the mouth and we’re starting to breathe low and slow into the belly. And you know what?
Don’t even, beside it being a little bit slower, you don’t even really have to change the breath capacity that that much. It’s more like you’re redirecting the breath. So from here down to here. So I’ll set you up because there’s some nice little things that we can do with the mouth as well. I mean, you can, again, you can be anywhere. if you’re at home and making this a formal practice, you might be sitting up tall with feet on ground, but we’ll just be as we are, hands to belly, and then take your awareness to the mouth and
speaker-0 (21:32.75)
Create a little space between your top teeth and bottom teeth. And then rest the tongue for the most part on the top palate of the mouth and the tip of your tongue on the back of the top teeth. And then let the lips part ever so slightly. So they’re just open and the jaw is relaxed. And notice your breath. How’s your breath? Where do you feel it the most?
speaker-1 (22:00.362)
I can feel it here, but it yeah.
speaker-0 (22:06.414)
Okay, so now that you’re aware of where it is, focus more on that place down there at the belly.
And let the dance be fully alive in the belly, so just erecting it, even if it’s a visualization to begin with. And soon enough you’ll notice that the belly widens and gets full, like you’re creating on purpose a beautiful, round, full Buddha belly. And on exhalation, the belly draws in and the navel draws in towards the spine. There’s only a gentle contraction as you release all that breath.
And again low and slow into the belly. Beautiful. And just one more of those. Cause sometimes all it takes is two or three conscious breaths.
speaker-0 (22:57.41)
Alright, and then just cracking the eyes open. And notice, notice how it shifts not only how you feel, but also the energy in the room. And that’s why I think like when I’m talking to leaders, like you can lead by just shifting your energy in the room. And I think that’s for men and women listening, like I think it’s so
speaker-1 (23:15.242)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-0 (23:26.606)
powerful to be able to shift the energy in the room just by the way you’re holding yourself, just by the way that you’re breathing. And even without using words, we can shift the energy in the room.
speaker-1 (23:38.158)
It’s it really is that coming out of here, coming out of your head a and and that dropping in. I mean, even the conversation we were kind of having a little bit before we got on and and you know, you’re someone who lives this work, breathes this work, but you were talking about, you know, you’ve had a transition the last twelve months.
An exciting one. You had a very successful business flow athletic with Ben Lucas. And you’ve sold that. So you’re in a in a new chapter of life personally and professionally. and you made a a comment about how regulated you were feeling. Yeah. As someone who, yeah, again, lives this work and breathes this work, what does that mean for you today? And how would that have been different previously as a as a
You know, a bus you and you’re still consulting and you’re still r going running workshops and you’ve got a a different business now, you know, so it’s this this evolution. Can you just take us through that? and the only other thing I want to say from my own experience is I’m doing more speaking and I love it. And there’s a few things I’ve changed, but one thing which is an absolute non-negotiable now is a breathwork practice before I go on stage.
I would find previously I’d sometime not all the time. And I was like, what is the what is the factor here? So, you know, a bit of preparation, but a bit of presence with myself and in the moment was having that breathwork practice and touch wood. It has shifted how I show up. I don’t speed up my sentences in the first few minutes, maybe when I used to get nervous, maybe not breathe properly.
maybe that would then drive those nerves. But I just wanted to kind of share that from my own experience on how it’s really shifted something. Anytime I need to show up for something important, I do do that. But it’s you’re right. I mean, even I think going into meetings with team or proposal meetings or or whatever, I could probably leverage that a little bit more. but yeah, sorry, just circle back to to the the transition and the shifts within yourself, practicing this.
speaker-1 (25:54.818)
your regulation, how was that shifted and showed up?
speaker-0 (25:57.496)
First of all, want to acknowledge you for doing the work, even if it’s just the little things before you go on, ’cause it’s so easy not to do them. And we I’ll I’ll listen to a podcast, I’ll read that thing and I’ll go, I’ll do that. And then I won’t apply them. So to be able to actually do that is massive. It’s this small small little things that create huge, huge have huge, huge effects. And I think it’s says a lot about preparation and priming our nervous system and when we put the work in,
We’re better able to roll with the punches. Whether it’s someone talking to us in a group when you’re doing a speaking gig and they throw you off a little bit, like you’ve got that default mode of regulated. and then in terms of the transition, I feel like I’m living my yoga right now more than I ever have. So to go back to when I first got into yoga, I got into yoga when I was not in a good place mentally, I was down and out, I was medicated.
And I basically I’d been in throes of an eating disorder for many years by that stage. And I just thought this is how I’m gonna be. This is how I’m gonna live. I’m gonna I’m this is it. I’m gonna be medicated and get on with it. And I was working in it in a great job. I was working in a digital agency, amazing team, awesome humans. So I still consider my brothers and sisters, but something didn’t feel right within in that environment. But that aside,
I remember going to my first yoga s class. I’d just been living in London and I thought I’m gonna ease my way back into fitness because I did a lot of partying, drinking, fun over there. And all the good times there was no yoga. There was no exercise. And I thought I’m gonna ease my way back into fitness. I was living in Bondi at the time, and I remember rocking up to this place in North Bondi called the Dharmashala. And any like yoga junkies in the East know that back then
speaker-1 (27:34.304)
Ha ha ha ha.
speaker-0 (27:51.17)
There were no other yoga studios in Bond at the time. There might have been like one other or so. But it was like the Mecca. And it was carpet on the floor, incense burning, deities on the wall. And I walk in and I’m like, I do not belong here. I should be back having after no afterwork drinks in the city. And I’m here. So I fumbled my way through it. I remember the guy next to me breathing in this really funny way, which I now know is Ujai breathing, and it sounds like
speaker-0 (28:23.086)
It’s that beautiful technique that we use, and that gentle like grasping in the throat that slows down the breath. And I remember thinking this is strange and fumbling my way through it. And but getting to the end and lying there in Shivas Center and feeling something. And then I remember walking home along the promenade and I stopped in my tracks because I started crying. And I had not allowed myself really to feel. I just felt meh. I felt depressed.
a lot of the time but I was like, what’s wrong with me? Like, you don’t, why do you feel that couldn’t, I didn’t know why I felt like that. And I definitely, I I think I wanted to cry a lot of the time, but I couldn’t. I was like emotionally constipated. And I remember the feeling of crying and it wasn’t like it wasn’t like I I was what they weren’t happy tears. There was the grief. Like it was a cracking open, but at the same time it was beautiful.
Is it the yoga? And now that I look back, like I started going four or five times a week. And with the help of my GP, I did come off those antidepressants pretty soon. I’m not saying that’s right for everybody. but that that was my experience with it. And now knowing what I know now with more training and more formal training and breath work in particular, outside of just the philosophy and the asana.
I realized that a lot of how I felt after that first session was tied into the breath and just slowing down. And and so that was profound. And that just started me on this other trajectory of leaving that eventually, going to India studying, working, things just op doors opened. I left this job of having a steady income to going to India and coming back and
speaker-1 (29:54.83)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (30:16.002)
you know, getting jobs teaching in gyms for like fifty dollars a class. I’m like, what have I done? But it worked out. and and I would say year one of Flow Athletic, which which we opened 13 years ago. I at the time it was like the first of its kind, yoga and fitness, but with a boutique feel. And we did a lot of research. We went to LA, we
Benny dragged me to like 10 classes a week of fitness and yoga and I remember falling asleep in Shavasana all the time. Anyway, year one, I burnt out. Yep. I was going through a breakup and I burnt out. And I wasn’t taking my own medicine and I was projecting health and telling people to breathe and telling people to move well. And I just wasn’t doing it. So I felt very misaligned.
And I started to, I’d say fine-tune some of these breath work practices and other techniques for soothing my I really needed soothing my nervous system at that point. Like I probably didn’t need to go to some kind of breath journey or upregulating situation. And so that that definitely helps. But I would say now, after 13 years selling the bus selling after selling the business, after that original burnout, I didn’t go back to that place. but I would say now that we’ve sold.
Yes, that initial phase of what am I gonna do now? Because I didn’t have like a backup plan. I didn’t know what we’re gonna do. I I all I knew was that this this is ending and it feels like it’s the right time. Ben and I both decide this is the right time. And so I I mean I was fine. I still had classes I was teaching and and you know, I’m not destitute, I’m not gonna be on the street or anything. It’s very different to when I first started teaching yoga.
But I’ve had time to really dive further into my studies. And I’m circling back to the Bhagavad Gita, which is this beautiful yogic text, and re-immersing myself in that and plenty of time for space and like simple things like looking after the family more than I more than I used to and dropping into my feminine and allowing myself just to exist. I just to exist. Cause I have always had this.
speaker-0 (32:35.128)
burning desire to be sp to be remarkable to be better than. Like it’s all ego-driven. And that started with the eating disorder in my teens that I had to be special. And it was in comparison to someone else and that’s a a long story. But and a lot of that need to be special motivated me to do some, you know, really amazing things as well with my career. Like Flow After Dark, we had this huge silent disco that we took up and down the east coast of Australia.
speaker-1 (32:36.749)
Special.
speaker-0 (33:02.402)
I’ve traveled, I’ve taught in amazing places and amazing retreats and worked with amazing teachers. And I mean, I I’ve had a very out-of-the-box experience as a yoga teacher. I’ve been very, very, very blessed. But just and it was hard initially. I called it the messy, messy middle. And and I don’t I I don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow either. I’m probably still in that messy middle, but it’s okay. Like I’m not, I’m not in a state of fear.
speaker-1 (33:32.29)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (33:32.43)
Which is the difference? Because nervous system feels better. And I was saying to you before, gosh, I feel regulated. That’s how I feel. And I thought I felt that for all those years teaching. But it was just giving my permit myself permission not to strive, not to do something ex incredibly remarkable. Actually, the remarkable and the sacred is in tending to the dishwasher. It’s in making my daughter’s bed in the morning.
speaker-1 (33:41.304)
And that
speaker-0 (34:01.43)
It’s in getting my clothes ready. It’s in like taking care of myself. so for now, in this little chapter, and it’s bringing me back to my create creativity as well, writing more and
speaker-1 (34:08.469)
Mm.
speaker-0 (34:17.164)
Yeah, I feel content.
speaker-1 (34:19.421)
And I mean everything that you did that you just mentioned and I know you you said some of it was ego driven, but it was also passion and and intuition in this is your mission, like for you to walk away from a stable job and and be curious and have this experience which then like set you off on the trajectory. and to now coming into this phase, which sounds like there’s a lot of wisdom and intuition in what you’re
talking about here. Do you think breath and these practices have allowed you to drop into that? and also for somebody else who might be thinking, or these decisions, am I intuitively making a decision or am I ego you know, is it coming from my ego? How can they start to listen to which one or identify who’s who’s running the show?
speaker-0 (35:11.758)
Because I’ve grappled with that so often. I don’t know if you have, Jess, but but like, am I making this decision because it’s an idea that’s come in my head that’s like been dropped in there by, I don’t know, whatever you want to call it, spirit. I I think inspiration is when we’re i aligned with spirit and we all have different words with that. and you just get you get download and you’re like, where did that come from? That to me is like inspiration and it’s
intuition. Like I’ll be teaching a yoga class. And this didn’t happen for me initially. And I always tell I advise new yoga teachers when you’re first starting to teach, know your sequence off the back of your like it’s the back of your hand. Know a bunch of sequences. Know the anatomy cues. Know the breath cues.
Be bit more technical. And then the more you teach and you teach it over, and and you can apply this to anything you do. And the more you teach it over and it’s like you move into that phase of mastery. And I think when you move into mastery, you allow space for creativity more and for intuition. And I think intuition is just cre that creativity and intuition are so intertwined. It’s like, you know, some people say, I think sure there’s a famous quote like creativity is just intuition and having fun or
speaker-1 (36:08.462)
Okay.
speaker-0 (36:28.812)
So when you drop into that mastery phase, so when I started to drop into that phase with my teaching, I would start to see poses before they’d arrive. So it was less me coming up with a sequence and I don’t plan them anymore. If I plan a s a yoga sequence.
it’ll fall to shit ’cause if I don’t go according ’cause I’m perfectionist and I have to let go of that. But if it doesn’t go according to the plan, my gosh, where am I? So I let the posture come to I see it. I see it in my head and I just trust it. And some days I see a posture and I go, I don’t want to teach that posture. And sometimes I won’t and it’ll feel disjointed. But if I trust it, it just c kind of comes together. Then I have to remember what I’ve taught on the other side if it’s a vinyasa class. But that’s
you know, another thing that’s probably also the place where my brain is at as at this time as a woman. So that’s one thing. And I do f but off off the mat and out of teaching, I’ve grappled with that what is intuition and what is just my ego. And I again it comes back to the simple things. Am I hydrated? Am I have I had enough to eat? Have I had enough sleep? am I breathing well? And have I spent enough time in stillness?
Because if I haven’t spent enough time in stillness, I can’t hear. I can’t discern what’s the difference between my mind in overdrive telling me what to do and what my gut is telling me or my heart is telling me. And one thing I’ve learned is that intuition, if something, if you’re really being guided towards something, it’s not, it’s quite subtle. And that’s where we can second guess ourselves. Like you might get a little bit of an instinct to call someone.
speaker-1 (38:06.072)
Mm.
speaker-0 (38:13.388)
And then on the logical mind, and it won’t be rational, but then the logical mind will come into it. no, they’re probably busy or I’m busier, I should do this thing. And we forget about it. And then we realise, that person really needed our help. Or they were in some trouble, or there was an opportunity, and they gave it to someone else. I don’t know, whatever it is. And
When something comes through and it’s ego, there’s there’s an urgency to it. I’ve got to do this and I’ve got to do it now. Whereas I think spirit speaks quietly. And we’ve got to be ready in our nervous system to hear that. And I think we can all it’s like it’s always there. It’s not like we’re not intuitive if our nervous system is wrecked. But we’re better able, A, to hear, and then B, when we take action.
speaker-1 (38:45.054)
Okay.
speaker-0 (39:03.404)
Just because we’ve taken action on our intuition and I’ve experienced this many times, doesn’t mean it’s going to turn out the way you peaches and roses. But it’s turning out for the greater good. Like if I look down the line, I know that it’s turned out the way that it was meant to, but in the messy middle, it feels like a mess. And it’s like, why did I listen to that voice? and so having a regulated nervous system allows us to be in the messy middle.
speaker-1 (39:31.05)
How do you create stillness? You mentioned stillness. Like what is stillness for you and and what can stillness look like for people? Is it just the three deep, low and slow breaths? Is it removing yourself, going away for the weekend? I’m sure it’s probably any and all, but just what is it for you and some examples? Because a lot of what we’re talking about here and with, you know, I just think the world we live in, how we are meant to live, we need to live by design.
To actually cultivate stillness, to be able to align with our circadian rhythm, to be able to breathe slowly, because we are just in fast-paced technology, AI, this constant feeling of being late or behind or or whatever it is. Like all of this is just hijacking our our brain, our nervous system. So how can people micro moments of stillness? What are some examples? Yeah, you’re right.
speaker-0 (40:29.792)
It’s different for everyone, isn’t it? For me, I love meditation. I love Yoga Nidra. Love Yoga Nidra. And it’s like a forced pause, and you’re lying down. It’s not like you have to sit up with this tall spider or anything. You are lying down. Now, the toughest part of that is not falling asleep, as you know, and as I know. but it’s still still if you fall asleep, you’ve still paused, you’ve still made yourself still for 20 minutes or longer at a time. And as you
speaker-1 (40:36.664)
Love yoga need.
speaker-1 (40:52.044)
Mm.
speaker-1 (40:58.382)
not be the psycho next to the person on the mat though getting annoyed at the snoring though.
speaker-0 (41:03.028)
yes. Yeah. That’s also probably my job as a teacher to come along and pinch that person. So that what else do I like to? Yeah, it’s mainly meditation, yoga nidra. I’ll find time to do alternate nostril breathing or some kind of breath practice. I like colouring in. Like I’ve got a colouring in book.
speaker-1 (41:23.118)
I actually bought one for when I was writing the book and it was a very short, intense period and I was doing it in sprints, like 90 minute sprints and twenty, thirty minute recovery blocks. And I was being a lot more methodical with it simply because it was such a short period of time. But I needed distractions and I wanted distractions that were different to just what I would typically do. You know, I was walking and and going into the gardens and all these things I love. But one thing I did, I I bought a puzzle.
And I bought a colouring in book just to have this diff like a moment for creativity and rest, but also something a little bit different to what I would just typically read.
speaker-0 (42:04.078)
Well, if you think about it, it’s very much like Yantra and Mantra in in in some of our yogic practices. Like for example, mantra is taking a a word or a series of words that create a certain vibration within, but it’s also redirecting the mind. And then sometimes you’ll go into I have to write this in the chapter in the book, but you go, Okay, mantra.
Much so it’s about redirecting mind. It’s not not about not having thoughts, but it’s about bringing your awareness back to that single point of focus. And the same colouring in, colouring in allows us to do that. We’re colouring in, and then all of a sudden I’ll be thinking about what I’m gonna cook for dinner or I’m gonna think about that person. I have to get okay, come back to just the colouring. And so, in that sense, stillness is like whatever helps us to come back to that one point of focus. So for my husband, it’s surfing.
speaker-1 (42:56.332)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (42:57.238)
And yes, he’s moving and he’s paddling a lot and he’s riding a wave, but in those spaces between his catching a wave or having a yarn to someone, or even even if he is having like he’s out there in nature. Nature is like he’ll he could go out there in a bad mood and he will only always come back shifted, changed, different. nature, especially since selling the business, I know we talk about this so much.
speaker-1 (43:09.442)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (43:26.338)
But it is, it changes us, it changes our biology. Like, let’s get off. I’ve talked about this before, but like let’s get off the or out of the spiritual closet, especially as women in leadership, and like talk about these practices and our spirituality and the things that’s br that bring us back into alignment because they work and they’re real. We’re not just imagining them. And, you know, there’s a beautiful guy who I followed, Dr. Zach Bush.
are you familiar with him? No. he talks a lot about biology and spirituality. Okay. And he said something the other day that just left me like, my gosh. And every time I’m in Centennial Park now, I’m thinking of this. that park is like another yoga studio to me at the moment. and he said, Yes, go out in nature and see the trees. But let the trees see you, let the trees witness you.
speaker-1 (44:11.194)
Mm.
speaker-0 (44:22.38)
And it t and it took me from appreciating and looking, ’cause you know, making it a practice of like looking and appreciating to and bringing my energy back and like it’s more of like a being in receptivity mode.
speaker-1 (44:39.094)
We’re say yeah.
speaker-0 (44:40.332)
Be seen. that was a game changer. So yeah, anything that helps everyone’s different. Anything that helps you feel like you’re you can just focus on pretty much one thing at a time. And it could be it could again I go back to the dishes because this is where I’m at on life right now, the simplicity of the I say that and like I’ve just started a new podcast and I’m looking at writing another book and but generally sacred is in the mundane.
speaker-1 (45:05.122)
I’m sitting here, honestly, I’m sitting here thinking about how much one of my favourite, I guess, still moments is going to the gardens. I live right in the city as we were talking about, but I have the gardens very close, which in the morning you hear the birds and it’s very quiet. But one of the things I like to do either in the morning or in the afternoon as a a brain break is I’ll often go and sit. And I have this crave and I’m honestly thinking about it right now. It’s like my toes are craving the grass.
just to go and sit and touch and but be around yeah the blue and or the green spaces and and not to bring it back to the science, but emotionally just from a response you will feel it. But there is actual brain chemistry shifting in that moment, being in nature.
speaker-0 (45:53.688)
Love talking about the science of spirituality too and talking about biology because I think it gives grounded like language and words aid to the people who need it more to become more aligned and more in touch with their spiritual side. And we’re all spiritual beings. but I just yeah, I think it’s really it really grounds us in these ideas and it gave if it gets more of us into the grass, having our feet on the grass, you know, amazing. I think we’re craving that as well.
With so much of our domestic living and urban living, I know that we’re craving, we’re craving that I want to touch a tree. I want to touch the grass, I want to feel it. My daughter is the best teacher for that as well. Like she’s shoeless all of the time. She does not put her shoes on anywhere. And like, you know, I’ll use my discernment. There’s a place in Bronte up the galley that’s gorgeous, but there’s always a lot of broken glass. But besides that, like she’s like
Take off your shoes. And sometimes you’re like, it’s cold but take off your shoes, Kate. Take off your shoes. Like they’re they’re the biggest teachers. Like they know that she’s schooling me every single day. She’s schooling me. Like, come for a swim, Mum. it’s cold. I don’t want to blow dry my hair. Go for a
speaker-1 (46:55.086)
Okay, mm.
speaker-1 (47:02.072)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-1 (47:08.702)
Right. the ocean, medicinal, every time. It’s thing each each everyone has their own well what they’ve got access to, but also you know, we w we know what really recharges or calms us. And for me, I mean the grass in the gardens, but the ocean is yeah, that’s probably my number one. Do you think there are differences for men and women with what works for them, what works
to to regulate their nervous system or from a breathwork technique or lens, or is it really what we’re talking about? You know, find your stillness, find your moment, and then whatever you feel called to, or whatever your soul creates.
speaker-0 (47:50.904)
Around with things, experiment. I mean, so for example, those therapeutic situations or the breath journeys. A lot of people will look at that and say it’s a very masculine practice because we might be doing things like
speaker-0 (48:08.6)
You know, and it’s quite big. It’s an expansive breath, it’s dynamic. Or if we’re doing a practice like Kabbalah Pati, skull shining breath, it’s
speaker-0 (48:22.328)
So there there are some that feel more masculine in nature.
speaker-1 (48:25.272)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-0 (48:28.034)
But we all have these energies within us, regardless of our gender. We all have the masculine and feminine energies in us, regardless of what it what we identify as. And so, like you say, find your stillness, find that still point, and then play around with some things. Like we’ve got our fingertips, so many tools, apps, YouTube channels, yoga teachers. Like there are so I don’t know, then that gets overwhelming, but choose like one person or choose.
Just start with like getting to that still point of if you need to focus or energize, inhalation, hold at the top or box breathing. If you need to downregulate, lie down, focus on the exhalation. Sort of a complicated and the whole longevity talk.
speaker-1 (49:05.334)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (49:13.543)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-1 (49:20.438)
Mm.
speaker-0 (49:23.672)
I’m all for it, but I think sometimes it’s taking us out of the present moment. And I think it could be having the exact opposite effect on us if we stress about am I getting the right supplements? Am I using the right infrared light? Am I, you know, have I am I have I got all the biohacks right for my body type and my age? And like there is so much information out there.
So I’m all for living better quality. But start now. How do I feel now? How’s my breath now? What’s happening in this moment now? How kind am I being to the person next to me now? Because that’s going to affect my nervous system. And then when we go home, knowing that how we feel, our nervous, our bodies are talking to each other right now. And our bodies are going to talk to our daughters when we get home. Like that, that alone, it gives me chills. That alone, having a daughter.
speaker-1 (49:53.694)
Mm.
speaker-0 (50:21.164)
I’ve made so many changes to my nervous system and to the way I’m showing up. It’s for her.
speaker-1 (50:31.586)
I have to agree, it’s really like a a a a mirror. It just highlights probably what I don’t know, it accelerates maybe the the decision to to make shifts. And even like I’m getting ready next week to have a potentially the next two weeks to have a massive deload because the start of this year has been quite full on and and how it’s showing up for me is I’m skipping the yin. I can’t get to the yin class. And
Yes, it’s at six o’clock, which isn’t an ideal time for Millie’s bedtime. But before I was making it happen, and now the excuses are slipping in. There is that frustration with the dishwasher or the little things. And it is, it’s this check-in point. This is happening. I don’t want to be showing up like this. It really does highlight and and I guess working for myself, which is a pro and a con. You know, you mentioned before the risk. It it’s a constant
choosing to do something like this. Like it might sound like, you can just set your schedule how you like. But then there is the the other side of that, which at times you don’t know hustle. What what’s coming. And it can drive that that hustle inside. But through getting it wrong before I’m recognizing the signs. And it’s I’ve just said like I could have put things in for the next week or two, but I’m just
choosing not to. one of the weeks I hope will be completely off and one will be a light week because of that. and I guess it just takes awareness, but I completely agree with what you’ve just said. There’s no point thinking about your longevity and your health span and the future of your health because that is shaped by these daily decisions. What you eat, how you sleep, how you move your body, how you talk to your body, your mind, your breath, connection to others. as you said,
We’re sitting here talking, but our microbiomes are talking, our nervous systems are talking. so creating this opportunity to to come back to self, to be still. And really, I don’t want to say simple because it downplays it, but the most accessible tool we have to do that is breath. And if I think about people walking away from this episode, not just inspired or enlightened, but to actually
speaker-1 (52:49.634)
to start to make a shift, what is maybe one wish that you would leave with people to how to turn knowledge and inspiration into actual action?
speaker-0 (53:00.174)
Okay. First of all, those actions that you’re taking, I’m still lingering back there because they’re gonna change your daughter’s future. I just applaud you for doing that. because I was listening to a death door speak the other day. So, you know, we all know birth dollars, they shepherd someone into this world. Death door helps to shepherd someone out, so they help you take care of things like your financials, everything tied up before you die.
anything regarding the family, you know, they’ll be with you at your s side whenever you need. And this death doula said that, you know, the interviewer was asking, trying to get to the juice, you know, what is it they say? Have you heard any juicy stuff, any extramarital affairs, that sort of stuff. And she gave a few instances, obviously retaining privacy of her clients, but she also said, like mostly people just care about their family and how much time they spent with their loved ones and
Regretting the times that they didn’t. It all I have a feeling that when I get to that place, this specialness is gonna fall to the side. And if you look at deep, deep core yogic kind of philosophies, even from the Bhagavad Gita, it’s yes, to be of service. This is karma yogin and be devoted to something, bhakti yogi yoga, but to not have an attachment on the outcome. And the Bhagavad Gita says that.
speaker-1 (54:00.81)
Bye.
speaker-1 (54:07.351)
Mm.
speaker-0 (54:28.428)
We are in service and to go and live out your dharma. And we all have a dharma that’s made that’s what makes us all the same. We’re all here for a reason. But your svud dharma is that thing that only you can do, Jess. And that only I can do. And and so it’s not to say don’t go out there and do anything if you feel called to, like do that, but don’t be attached to the outcomes. Like I used to be attached to it’s gonna make me look this way. I’m gonna appear this way.
I mean to get this from it. yeah, time. Like what actually really matters. And then one thing, okay, sort of answer your question, one thing that we can start doing now is yeah, take care of your breath. It’s really precious. Remind yourself how are you breathing? and and just that simple idea of breathing through the nose more. I’m I’m just gonna circle back to it because.
It sounds so simple and it’s not even that profound, but guys, let’s be practical about this and you can change you can change everything. And I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. Change the way that you’re eating. It’s gonna change the way that you’re thinking. It’s gonna change the way that you’re interacting with people. Wow. It’s not the only thing, obviously, but it’s a good place to start. We all do it.
speaker-1 (55:35.512)
Mm-hmm.
speaker-1 (55:51.446)
Well
speaker-1 (55:55.17)
We all do it.
speaker-0 (55:57.736)
And for anyone who’s saying, okay, but I can’t breathe through the nose because I have, I do have this situation going on. And I have a friend of mine, she’s actually my trainer. Shout out to Jems. She actually comes to my breath journey with this contraption in her nose that makes her nostrils bigger. The first time she did it, I was like, you are a weirdo, and I love you so much for it. so there are ways that we can better manage that. And even just breathing, okay, so you’ve obviously got another hold you can breathe through the mouth.
But to slow it down, to consciously slow it down. Like I can even take that ujai breath that I practiced before that sounds like this.
speaker-1 (56:28.846)
Mm.
speaker-0 (56:37.876)
And I can do it through the mouth. You know that sound you’re making as you’re fogging up glass with a sheet of breath?
You can, and on the in breath?
speaker-0 (56:50.358)
be f more focused on that low and slow. And if you go to a skilled breath practitioner, they can help you as well.
speaker-1 (56:57.678)
With nasal things. And look, and if if you’re struggling to breathe through your nose, I’ve had two sinus surgeries. So I’ve got some serious ENT things going on, but I had to advocate and push for answers on on what was happening. That just didn’t kind of come about. And and that has significantly shifted. And it’s one of those I probably didn’t really understand how much I wasn’t.
breathing through my nose because I did have un some underlying structural and and things going on. But yeah, if you are struggling and and you know, maybe if you need to advocate for yourself and push for answers, because as someone who has, yeah, been through this now twice, I didn’t really understand how much I wasn’t able to breathe through my nose and then the knock on effects of that.
speaker-0 (57:55.916)
And it’s one thing not knowing, but once you know it’s also easy not to do anything about it. so nothing changes if nothing changes. That’s it.
speaker-1 (58:05.038)
Kate, thank you so much for your time. Where is the best place for people to listen, follow along, learn more about some of the experiences or learnings that you have?
speaker-0 (58:18.776)
Pretty much most of my stuff goes on Instagram. It’s just act at ActiveYogi. I am developing a new podcast. There’s a few episodes up there. Maybe Jess, you’ll come and sit on my podcast one day. A little swapsy. that’s called Where We Soften. And yeah, but mainly Instagram is where most of it’s at. Substack. I’m on there as active yogi as well.
speaker-1 (58:42.264)
Fantastic. Before I let you go, I ask all of my guests one final question, which is what three habits, behaviors, things, whatever we want to call them, help you stay at the top?
speaker-0 (58:57.004)
At the moment, it’s physical touch with people I love, hugs. I call them oxycuddles. it’s taking good care of my nutrition and hydration. And it’s working on my mind daily to hand over the things that are beyond my control and writing things down so that I can see it and not necessarily always believe the things that I’m hearing in my head. Because our mind is
A monkey and it’ll l like to tell you lots of little yarns that aren’t true.
speaker-1 (59:28.814)
Thank you for sharing that. I yes, the mind, it’s again why I I love the yin yoga. It’s just helps check in, slow things down. But that daily practice and I do love a pen to paper situation. It just is something methodical and just sep nearly allows you to separate the what is going on up here to
you know, out of the body and and process it. Yeah. And rationalise it a bit more and talk to yourself a bit kinder. Yes. Kate, thank you for joining me today. All of the links will be in the show notes. Big thank you again for contributing to my new book for the long run, particularly on breath work and some of these techniques that we’ve tak that you’ve taken us through or mentioned.
speaker-0 (01:00:03.384)
Sometimes share it with someone else.
speaker-1 (01:00:25.39)
We’ll leave it there. I will back be back again next week with a solo episode helping you all not only reach the top but sustainably stay there. See you all then. Thank you, Kate.elping you all not only reach the top but sustainably stay there. I’ll see you all then.