Breathwork specialist Rory Warnock understands how to regulate your nervous system using the power of just your breath.
When you’re stressed, your IQ drops as your body is flooded with cortisol and adrenaline.
Rory explains how to use your breath as a technique to down-regulate your body, improve your focus, and approach life with a clearer mind.
In this episode of Stay at the Top, we explore the science and practical application of breathing, from elite sport and high performance environments through to everyday life. Rory shares simple techniques you can use immediately to reduce stress, improve recovery, and gain greater control over your emotional state.
If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, burnt out, reactive, or like your brain is running faster than you’d like, this episode is for you.
In this episode Rory shares:
- Why breathing is one of the most underutilised performance tools available
- The connection between breath, stress and nervous system regulation
- How elite athletes use breathing techniques before, during and after competition
- Why recovery is just as important as performance
- The difference between up-regulating and down-regulating your nervous system
- How breathing influences focus, cognition and emotional regulation
- Why nose breathing matters and the benefits of functional breathing
- The relationship between breathing, oxygen and carbon dioxide
- Simple breathing techniques to reduce stress in real time
- How wearables can be used to support behaviour change and recovery
- Why high performers are struggling with stress and burnout
- The role of exercise, connection and breathwork in sustainable performance
Key Quotes
“We need to eat and we need to breathe.”
“It’s not always about how well you can perform. It’s about how well and how fast you can recover.”
“Breathing is a skill. Like any skill, it can be trained.”
Episode Resources
📖 PRE-ORDER For the Long Run by Jess Spendlove 👉 https://amzn.to/4t33BPh
Rory Warnock
More about Rory Warnock: https://www.rorywarnock.com/
Jessica Spendlove Website – www.jessicaspendlove.com
Jessica Spendlove Keynotes – JessicaspendloveKeynotes – Jessica Spendlove
The High-Performance Profile Quiz https://jessicaspendlove.com/quiz/
Jess Spendlove Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jess_spendlove_dietitian/?hl=en
Jess Spendlove LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-spendlove-64173bb8/
About Rory
Rory Warnock is a Performance & Wellness Coach, keynote speaker, published author, and Co-Founder & Creative Director of Sansara.
Originally from Scotland and now based in Sydney, Rory specialises in breathwork and nervous system regulation to support mental wellbeing, resilience, recovery, and sustainable high performance. His work sits at the intersection of physiology, performance, wellbeing, and human connection – helping individuals and teams better navigate the demands of modern life.
Over the past seven years, Rory has worked with hundreds of leading organisations, athletes, and teams across Australia, the US, and the UK. His clients have included companies such as Google, Amazon, LinkedIn, Canva, Uber, American Express, BlackRock, and Soho House, alongside elite sporting organisations including the Sydney Swans AFL & AFLW and athletes from Olympic track and field, international cricket, swimming, and professional surfing.
Alongside coaching and consulting, Rory delivers keynote presentations, immersive breathwork experiences, leadership workshops, and performance programmes designed to enhance focus, emotional regulation, communication, and decision-making under pressure.
His work has been featured in publications including GQ, Vogue, ELLE, Grazia, Robb Report, Qantas Insider, Vice, and The Sydney Morning Herald.
Outside of his professional work, Rory is a committed ultramarathon runner, having completed over 15 single- and multi-day endurance events across Australia, the US, Europe, Chile, and Kyrgyzstan.
About Your Host
Jessica Spendlove | Wellbeing Speaker & High Performance Strategist
Jess Spendlove is an international wellbeing and high performance speaker, coach, and advisor. With over 15 years of experience across corporate leadership, elite sport and the military she is known for helping ambitious leaders and teams optimise energy, build resilience, and sustain peak performance.
As one of Australia’s leading performance dietitians and a trusted voice in executive wellbeing, Jess delivers science-backed strategies that empower individuals, teams and organisations to thrive under pressure and achieve long-term success.
Episode Transcript
The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy
speaker-0 (00:00.12)
People are very burnt out under a lot of pressure. They struggle to feel more clear and calm in stressful, high pressured environment.
speaker-1 (00:07.967)
Thinking we can ice bath our way out of chronic sleep debt is rubbish. We need to eat and we need to breathe.
speaker-0 (00:15.032)
People don’t know that they have something at the tip of their tongue that they can use to feel a little bit better. Okay, close down your eyes, Jess. Close down your eyes. Let’s breathe in, two, three, four, out, two, three, four. Blinking, open your eyes. 78. So you went from 110 to 78 in four breaths.
The nose provides the body with over thirty functions, from warming the air, humidifying the air, slowing the rhythm down. Not always about how you can you perform, but how well and how fast can you recover.
speaker-1 (00:52.738)
Whether you’re going to the Olympics, training for the World Championship, a new mum like myself, we’re all doing this 20,000, 25,000 times a day. Yet with just a bit of awareness and the right kind of tips and tools, there’s so much opportunity to exist in a different way. Rory Warnock, welcome to Stay at the Top. You are an impressive individual. You’ve got a lot of feathers in the cap.
speaker-0 (01:14.584)
Thank you for having me.
speaker-1 (01:20.076)
You’re a leading performance and wellness coach, very experienced, high-level breath work facilitator to elite athletes, corporates. You’ve got your first book. You’re a founder of an incredible wellness club coming out. It’s safe to say you really live and breathe everything that you do. You’re also fresh off a 50K.
trail run, two days ago I believe, if my sources, i.e. Instagram are correct. How is the body and brain feeling? Like how do you prepare and recover from something like that? I know.
speaker-0 (01:55.266)
What an intro. Gosh, that I I feel a little bit a little bit overwhelmed and emotional, thank you. the body is is tender. It is a little bit fragile this morning, I will admit. I think I will go for a light six or seven K jog this afternoon. I might take my dog out with me, just clears the head. So the body’s feeling fragile, but the mind feels proud and grateful. You know, I get so much joy and
almost a sense of stillness being in nature and and as much as I love the you know the hustle and bustle of the city and you know doing what I do with with work, it’s nice to have that conscious escapism if if you will.
speaker-1 (02:41.794)
How does one get into ultra marathon trail, you know? I’ve had a few clients who have done the Atacama, is that am I saying that correctly? Atacama, yep. I know you’ve also got some other, you know, hundred, two hundred, two hundred and fifty kilometer races coming up. How how do you get interested in something like ultra running?
speaker-0 (03:04.994)
Honestly it was so random. I I was like many individuals, I picked up running a bit more consistently during COVID. I was a fairly decent runner back at school, ran cross country and I’m built to run. I’m small and thin and light. I’m not really built for any contact sports. And then during COVID, started running a lot more just to try and clear the head and improve my mental health. A running coach who was based in Bondi at the time, Greg Pearson.
Now one my good friends or has been for quite a few years now, he asked, you know, he saw that I was putting l a lot of information on Instagram about nasal breathing whilst running. I was doing all these stupid things personally just to try out how to breathe at different different ways and methods and modalities to breathe. So I was taping my mouth whilst running. This is back in twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. He then messaged me saying, I see what you’re putting up about breathing whilst running. Do you wanna have a catch up coffee and talk about breathing and running?
And I like, sounds awesome. I don’t really know many other people that want to do that. So we did that and then he said that he was training and he was gonna compete in this this race UTA one hundred. And I said, Well what does that involve? You know, well you run through the mountains for a hundred kilometers. And maybe it’s part of my personality, maybe it’s a slightly I don’t really know what to call it, maybe s some kind of addictive personality in some capacity, but I then signed up, he
Coach and trained me for three months and then that was my first ultra in 2021. So prior to that I’d only ever run Brighton half Marth in in the UK and then I ran my first hundred K race. Then the year after ran two a two hundred and fifty K race. The year after ran two or three hundred K races. So I think and the you know, when when I talk about l these long distance races, often the shorter ultras, if that even is a thing, are harder. So I ran a you
mentioned the fifty K at the weekend, you fifty K races are hard because you’re you’re pushing yourself a lot more compared to say a hundred K race where I’ll be going a little bit slower. But yeah, I think just the I love being in nature, I love exploring the world. I’ve ran and raced in some beautiful places in Kyrgyzstan, in Utah, in the Atacama in Chile, Namibia later this year. So I love to travel, and just I feel very full mentally, physically and emotionally through through long distance running.
speaker-1 (05:29.376)
Yeah, it sounds like a real love and flow state when you’re doing it. How do you manage your body and your mind? It sounds like a lot of the running gives you that mental peace and is an element of of focusing on that mental health aspect, but to stay fit, to stay to sustain performance, which is a huge philosophy of yours. Like what does that involve personally for you with your running?
speaker-0 (05:55.468)
Yeah, no, you’re you’re you’re bang on. I think it’s I think we are we are aligned with that sustained high performance element to life and for for individuals where I don’t want to just go and run a race and then not be able to run for another three or four weeks. You know, I I like being able to get out of bed and feel healthy, feel fit, be able to lift weights and and run whenever and wherever. So
I think that sustained high performance element is is everything from sleep is to what you put in your mouth to how you breathe to my social connections to reducing alcohol intake. It’s a whole lifestyle. trying not to you know, I’m I’m gonna say try not to lean into anything to an extreme, even though I compete in long distance racing. But you know what I mean? You know, I I I love a beer, I love a glass of wine here and there, but you know, my my youthful party days are definitely behind me.
But the yeah, the sustained high performance element is definitely much more around wellness and well being as a lifestyle. You know, we we you know, we actually coach and work with very similar individuals. But, you know, one of the best at this, Errol, who pleases us one is you know, he on his days off where I know a lot of the boys just do nothing, which is fine and that works for a lot of people, Errol will do, you know, four to six hours of recovery. You know, we’ll we’ll do breath work, then he’ll do a
a cryo, then you do something else and something else. You know, that that is an individual and a human who really focuses on every element from mind and body to perform at the best day in and day out, you know, rather than just that peak performance element.
speaker-1 (07:28.494)
100% like the the athletes, whether it’s the athletes or the C suites who have you know, the the masters, there is so much work that goes into that. And yeah, very fortunate to have worked with Errol. And I remember when I kind of got the inquiry and, you know, knew who he was and I thought, wow, this is really impressive. He was
I think it was maybe twenty at the time. And I was like, the conversation that you’re wanting to have, I’m not having that with athletes until they’re entering their thirties and they’re looking at the longevity and they want to renew their contract or the body is starting to give way. And you’re doing it the front end of your career. And look, sport is an interesting beast, you know, it it’s that doesn’t mean there won’t be injuries, which i is kind of I think part of it like
To experience the highs, you need to experience the lows. But yeah, I love that for you hearing that while you’re this breathwork master, I’m going to call you. Your philosophy really embodies and touches on all these other areas of of health and performance as well. for you, has that kind of just been a progression, or was there an instance where you weren’t living in alignment or something extreme happened and it kind of went from
I don’t know, maybe a way you were operating to this more like let’s just seek something more sustainable and and let’s look at all these foundational elements.
speaker-0 (08:53.074)
I well I think personally I got into breathwork to improve my own mental health but then professionally I’ve always coached the individual first as opposed as opposed to the athlete first. You know and I think I’ve always treated athletes and I work with a lot of great individuals and teams, I’ve always just treated them as humans and I think a lot of people often look at them through this lens of, you know, to to
increase the athlete’s mind and body as opposed to the human, but you know, if you can get the foundations right, you know, how are they performing at home and what is their relationships like at home and how are they performing when they’re at the club, then I think it’s you’re setting them up for more success that way. So yeah, I think I think the human aspect first before the athlete is is what I’ve focused on a lot more. and I think that that holistic
aspect of being a a breathing coach, you know, it’s everything from visualization to mindset training to how are they thinking, to how are they performing, because your thoughts and feelings really dictate how you perform and act.
speaker-1 (10:04.726)
And how has the work evolved with the corporates and the athletes and the teams, you know, over the last seven years that you’ve been doing this? Or has it been kind of a a same approach and methodology, but potentially the way it’s just been received has has evolved more?
speaker-0 (10:23.702)
I definitely started off more from the well being perspective and then naturally lent more into the performance side. And I think I just found myself enjoying that and I found the areas that I was working in the the the athletes and the corporates wanted that. And there wasn’t really or there isn’t really many there’s a few who are great, but there’s not many breath work or breathing and nervous system regulation.
coaches out there who are focusing on that performance element. So I think, yeah, I think when I first started in 2019, 2020, it’s very much about improving mental health and to reduce anxiety and depression. Then it kind of started moving over to retaining executive function and and how can individuals improve cognition and to stay online as opposed to offline. So I think it’s been a a natural evolution. It’s not really been too conscious over the years.
It’s it’s it’s almost just where I’ve found myself, what I’ve enjoyed doing and coaching and where I’ve found the most value being added. So it’s been pretty natural.
speaker-1 (11:32.736)
And I guess this question is coming from a lens of my own experience. So background heavily, performance nutrition is evolving a little bit more now with the type of work and the podcast and the speaking and the book. Just a few Just a couple of things. But if I was to think about what my core message and principles are from the nutrition lens, whether I’m talking about it from a health or a performance lens, they’re the same principles. I’m just using
different outcomes depending on the person with yourself and this evolution from the the well-being into the more performance side. For you is it ultimately a lot of the same techniques? It’s just the the outcome that is driving for the person, or is there gy differences between the two?
speaker-0 (12:18.936)
They’re they’re pretty similar. They they’re pretty similar. Whether it’s someone in a medical clinic who’s suffering from anxiety or panic attacks to someone who’s trying to regulate their nervous system and become less reactive in the workplace, it’s the same process and a very similar outcome. So yeah, the the techniques are very similar. And I actually kinda mentioned this in the book which which you’re probably alluding to, where that a often
If you want to upregulate there’s there’s a few techniques, if you want to downregulate there’s a few techniques, if you want to balance there’s a few techniques. So yeah, the techniques stay fairly similar. I was actually thinking whilst you were speaking there, do you have, you know, do you have a coaching philosophy or like a one or two line sentence that you kinda adhere by from a personal and a coaching perspective?
speaker-1 (13:08.27)
I don’t know. I’d love to hear yours first and that’ll b that’ll help me gather my thoughts as well.
speaker-0 (13:12.974)
I mean I kinda just fell into this, but my coaching philosophy is to improve mental health and physical health to optimise well being and daily performance. You know, so it’s the mental health, the physical health, and then well being to optimize the performance. That’s kind of how I you know, one or two lines of what I what I say I support individuals and teams with. and when I say performance, you know, that could be, you know, Roan Browning sprinting or it could be
a stay at home mum to try and show up as her best with her kids. Yeah. You know, how how is that individual performing?
speaker-1 (13:46.91)
Hundred percent. The performance I I align a lot. I I my work is the intersection of the two. So I probably talk about the intersection of the two or that well being is the foundation of performance. So it’s nearly this like two sides of the same coin, I think for a long time. They were seen as opposing, but really to get the best performance outcome cognitively, physically, at whatever level of the spectrum, exactly, whether you’re rowing, going to the Olympics
Training for the world championships, whether you’re a new mum like myself, who’s just trying to get a 20 minute jog in twice a week, or anywhere in between, there is still elements of physical and and cognitive performance. And I think this language is shifting. I think people are starting to understand that. I think the high performance message, I mean, it definitely resonates. you know, again, I know our backgrounds are sport, corporate, defense, and yes.
Like that works for that one percent of the population. But the principles and the techniques really do trickle down and they have the capacity to support everyone. It’s just finding that kind of in. so it’s interesting to to hear you say that. Thinking in the performance kind of lane and and maybe let’s stay with the athletes because we’re they’ve come up.
Can we just run through a few scenarios and the types of techniques that you might suggest and then maybe we can kind of go through them in a little bit more detail?
speaker-0 (15:16.876)
Yeah. yeah, I mean, as you’re asking that question is making me think of, you know, the AFL team or AFL teams where, you know, they say forty five in a in a team in a squad, ranging from kids who are starting off seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old, to then slightly more mature men who have been playing for fifteen years. Often, not always, but often the younger guys can feel bit anxious or overwhelmed.
the heart rate is a little bit high, IQ drops, cognition isn’t where it needs to be. So I’d practice down regulating techniques with them just to improve that focus, that concentration, to help them feel a bit more clear in the mind. But the boys who are a little bit older, who are running out on their I don’t even know how many games they would have played, three, four hundred games or whatever it is, you know, then maybe they need techniques that need to be more upregulating to switch on, to increase that energy, increase that alertness. So I think the the interesting thing with
breathing from a reactive standpoint is it can be so specific. It can be very individualized. I’m obviously not going to n name any names, but one person could put the headphones in and listen to some slow stuff to feel a bit more relaxed and clear. Then the person beside them could listen to some faster stuff to increase that energy, that alertness. So yeah, understanding what technique you need, when you need it and how to fill that need is pretty important.
speaker-1 (16:43.17)
Yeah, it’s it’s powerful. And it is, it’s that individualized approach to the to the person. I can only imagine being eighteen years old and you’ve gone from wherever you were to running out to a hundred thousand people at the MCG. Yeah, we’re gonna need some some calming breathwork techniques. And and this sounds like what you’re talking about is is before the game.
What about during the game? when they’re on the bench or quarter time? Is is it the same techniques or it’s again having a bit of a toolkit where they can kind of utilize?
speaker-0 (17:15.67)
Yeah, the toolkit’s a nice way of looking at it. and with the boys who are really a and the girls who I’ve worked with, when they’re really bought in, it’s understanding how they’re breathing prior to performing, how they’re breathing when they are performing, ’cause the game or the sport starts when it starts and it ends when it ends. You never have your foot off the pulse, finger off the pulse, sorry. Then how are they breathing to down regulate to improve that rest and that sleep quality if not?
Drinking a million beers after. All of the above. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So for example, if there’s a stoppage in an AFL game or they’re on a bench, using the reset breath is what I often recommend. If the heart rate is high, if they’re feeling overwhelmed or overstimulated, reset breath is simply a full nasal inhale. The lungs are full, it’s like a sigh with a long exhale through the mouth.
speaker-0 (18:15.81)
I do with my eyes closed, obviously if they’re playing on a field, keep the eyes open. But it’s a great way just to reset the mind, reset the body. There’s a great paper, titled A Sigh of Relief or a Sigh to Relieve, and the authors found that deep breathing, sighing, can be used as physiological and psychological resetters. So looking at that paper, that study, if it’s good enough for the subjects used there, it’s good enough for the athletes that we work with.
speaker-1 (18:38.658)
You know, a lot of what you kind of just touched on is how they’re feeling in the moment. How much of your work is that conversation around just checking in on how you’re feeling? And obviously third quarter of an AFL match might be a little bit different to a corporate in an office type situation, but thinking about both, what is that conversation around subjectively checking in and then utilising, you know, objective wearables, those kinds of tools?
speaker-0 (19:08.608)
One of the reasons that I really like working with Errol is because he’s he’s so mature and intelligent and aware and and y it’s quite rare to you know, I think he’s twenty two or twenty-three now. You know, when I started first working with him, he was about eighteen or nineteen, he still had that mature mind on him, exactly as you mentioned. And to to have that internal awareness of what is going within your physiology, within the body, within the psychology, within the brain
understanding if the heart rate’s high and understanding how to reduce that heart rate to feel more clear, more calm. Something I was thinking about and that I often talk with with athletes about is not always about how you can you perform, but how well and how fast can you recover. You know, it’s not always about spiking the heart rate up, but how well can you bring it back down as well. And when there is time and stoppages during the game, it’s trying to bring it back down as well. So yeah, having that self awareness, that breath awareness to
from the minute minute you walk onto the field to the minute that you come off the field is so important and you know, there are some players that again not gonna name any names, but there are some players that I’ve worked with for for years now and they’re still working on it. It still takes practice. You know, I I’ve been nasal breathing whilst running since twenty nineteen and you know, I I ran the Sydney Marathon last year or two years ago, nasal only, nasal breathing only. I could never have done that three years ago. You know, like anything, I like any skill
breathing or breath work, conscious breathing is a skill and like any skill that can be developed and trained and practiced, it requires a bit of work and it requires a bit of effort. And if people aren’t wanting to give it the time, want if they don’t want to focus on it, then nothing will change. Exact same nutrition, right? You know, you you have to be willing and wanting to change and improve, otherwise the same shit’s gonna be on your plate. If you don’t make the change, nothing’s gonna happen.
speaker-1 (20:55.928)
I think, you know, we were having the conversation before we started that. There’s a lot of gadgets, there’s a lot of the one percenters and and I really believe in, you know, whether we’re talking supplements, I V vitamin infusions, you know, we can even put ice baths in there. I I believe in all that stuff.
For the right person at the right time, depending on what else they’re doing. But when we’re starting with that and thinking we can ice bath our way out of chronic sleep debt or just pop a IV vitamin infusion in and our diet is rubbish, they’re not gonna have the effects. It’s gonna be very short term. Start with the foundations and the few things that all of us humans have in common are that we need to eat and we can put hydration in there and we need to breathe to stay alive.
And so this is really things that we’re already doing. It’s just tapping in and getting better access to that. And so if someone’s hearing, okay, yep, I want to start using some of these techniques, you’ve mentioned the reset breath, what are a couple of other ones that you like to personally use or or teach to, I guess, the masses?
speaker-0 (22:03.906)
Yeah, no, you’re back on, and this is where you and I really align is just getting the foundations, the fundamentals. And the two things for no better word that we need in life to survive are nutrition and oxygen breath, right? Everything that I that I do personally, I do with my clients and patients, and vice versa. Everything that I do with my clients and patients, I’d do personally. the best place to start would be learning and understanding to breathe in a more functional pattern through your nose, light, quiet, deep, slow.
Avoiding mouth breathing, you know, the nose provides the body with over thirty benefits, thirty functions, from warming the air, humidifying the air, slowing the rhythm down to bring when you slow the rhythm down, we know less breaths per minute will provide the body with more oxygen. It’s hard to shift the oxygen that’s attached to hemoglobin, but you can actually influence how much oxygen detached from hemoglobin and makes its way into the tissue by breathing less. If you’re to breathe too fast,
You exhale too much carbon dioxide and oxygen stays bound to hemoglobin. So you actually can influence how much is detached with the the the CO two and oxygen relationship. So yeah, understanding to breathe functionally at rest is the best place to start. Then understanding how are you breathing while sleeping, that’s probably a bit of a funny thing to say because you’re probably thinking if you’re listening while I’m asleep, I don’t know how the fuck I’m breathing. Tape your mouth, if you have a partner,
They will probably know if you do mouth breathe whilst sleeping. I used to practice this a lot in 2019-2020. Tape my mouth, and now it’s become natural and and a habit that I just breathe through my nose anyway. If you’re unsure as well, you may wake up in the morning with a dry mouth, you may wake up in the morning a little bit anxious, you may not feel well rested. There’s signs that you are a mouth breather, so a little bit of tape just.
over here can be slightly useful as well. So yeah, the best place to start, functional breathing. if you want a bit of a protocol, five minutes in the morning, five minutes in the evening. Shameless plug here, but I don’t make any money from it, so it’s not really a plug, but I do have breathwork available on Spotify. So just very simply type my name in and there’s five breathwork techniques there for Cam. So just use one of them. I created them with one of my good friends, Stu Turner. He’s
speaker-0 (24:25.672)
create the beautiful music and I’ve guided the breath work so they’re available anytime, anywhere. No excuses.
speaker-1 (24:32.448)
It’s Hail Studio, is that what it’s yeah, have I said it right? Yeah, Oscan. We also and I mean I have briefly mentioned it, but the book as well. So earlier this year, late January, is that
speaker-0 (24:44.014)
Look, yeah, it was meant to be way last year, but anyway, life gets in the way and and life happens. But yeah, it’s it was it was a journey. When’s yours out?
speaker-1 (24:55.854)
twenty ninth of July.
speaker-0 (24:58.52)
How did you find writing it? Tell the audience.
speaker-1 (25:00.366)
Well, so I was originally meant to write a nutrition specific book. So it came up a few years ago and at the time I was still really largely you know and that’s, you know, it that’s my background, it will always be
You you can’t unlearn where you’ve spent twenty years of your professional life and then even ten years before that, you know, my own experience as a a junior elite athlete. But I just started to see in the work I was wanting to do to to to go broader and everything intersects, like exactly what we’re talking about here, particularly around the sustainable high performance philosophy. So I spent a lot of years thinking about it and not much time actually writing it. And then when I committed to it, I agreed to a really short timeline.
like less than two months.
speaker-0 (25:47.606)
How short are we talking?
speaker-0 (25:52.226)
That’s wild, Jess. That’s so short. Yeah. And then how long did it take you to actually write it? Yeah.
speaker-1 (25:58.626)
Yeah, well so it was it was closer to three months but it took a few few weeks to get the contract and then it was also around Christmas and I’d promised I was going to Thailand for two weeks and I was like I’m not writing. I actually really need these two weeks. I think it’s Parkinson’s law, you know, you take the time that you’ve got. I literally did nothing else. Like I cleared my calendar. I basically wrote every day for seven days. When I was getting really tired, I took a day off.
It was a very intense period of time which is not sustainable high performance, but it was a sprint which I committed to and I had a lot of tools. I I pulled on a lot of tools in that time and doubled down on them. The breath work, the ice baths, all of these ways to really rest and be very intentional and to get more like cognitive capacity out of my days than what I would typically do.
speaker-0 (26:54.178)
That’s impressive. I I yeah, I I signed the contract that I said I’d do it within three months and I think it took me two years. So
speaker-1 (27:02.902)
When you’re doing a lot of do you think your approach or what w you were including in there shifted at all or it was i it was clear and it just like it’s it’s an intense I wouldn’t say my process is is the standard.
speaker-0 (27:16.104)
No, I think I mean a a book’s a funny one and I you I’m I’m highly dyslexic. I love the coaching element. but I you know very gratefully and appreciatively got offered a few contracts to write a book and you know I I said yes to the opportunity. I never thought I’d be writing a book in my life. I’m very proud of it. I think that the work and the information in there is incredibly beneficial and will will help change a lot of people’s lives.
If I were to write it now would things be different? A little bit. I’ve been I’ve worked with different clients. I’ve done more. so and I’ve spoken to other people who’ve wro wrote a book as well in the past and and it’s a funny kind of psychologi psychological dynamic where you’ve gotta be happy and content with what you’re putting out and knowing that it’s never truly done or finished, if that makes sense. So I’m very proud of it. It it was hard work, but it’s it’s it feels very exciting to
release something that can help people far and wide. ‘Cause that’s kinda what I’ve wanted to do since I got into Breathwork is help improve people’s lives wherever they are in the world because I know how important this work is.
speaker-1 (28:23.91)
It’s just a skill, and as we said, we’re all doing it, and we’re all doing this thousands and thousands, you know. I think it’s what 20,000, 25,000 times a day, so subconsciously, so automatically, yet with just a bit of awareness and the right kind of tips and tools, there’s so much opportunity to access it and and exist in a different way. So for me personally, I feel like of all of those buckets, my number one
Area that I have to constantly focus on is stress. And you know, stress is is there’s good stress and there’s bad stress, but it’s really easy, and this is probably pretty appropriate for me to say off the back of the book timeline. But I historically will agree to a lot of things. Great opportunities come, I say yes, I I haven’t checked in on my capacity or I’ve let my ego get in the way.
Yes, yes, yes, how do you say no to these opportunities? Run myself into the ground. So me taking stock on my stress, which I’ve really seen the relationship between stress and breath, and trying to have more of a practice around that. Is it something I do every day? No, but is it something that I’m working on definitely? And if we think, I guess, stress in general, you know, particularly maybe the corporate people that you work with.
What are you seeing there? What are the conversations and how can breath, you know, help us down regulate and manage our stress?
speaker-0 (29:54.548)
It’s you know, we’re s we’re we’re very similar in a lot of ways and we’re we’re we’re very similar where we work with high performing individuals, but I also think without sounding too arrogant that we are high performing individuals too and we push ourselves a lot. You know, you’re doing so much. I mean it kinda goes without saying and and you and I know this where people are very burnt out. People are under a lot of pressure, people struggle to manage their emotional state, they struggle to
understand how to feel more clear and calm in stressful, high pressured environments. Mm-hmm. I’ve worked with a lot of companies now over five hundred companies. I probably do about two or three corporate sessions a week on average, all over Australia and yeah, people don’t have the tools. You know, you mentioned toolbox or toolkit earlier. People don’t know that they are they have something at the tip of their tongue, i.e. their breath, that they can use to feel
a little bit better. People are stressed, people are burnt out, people are overwhelmed, they don’t have the understanding and the ability to regulate. but s using some simple techniques which I support individuals and teams with, whether it’s a wellness day, whether it’s a team day, an off site, a quarterly event, a conference or a summit, hopefully providing a couple of tips, tools and techniques that can shift and change people’s lives can be very beneficial. And I think you and I both know as
individuals who practice these techniques day in and day out, you know, I’d I’ll practice some kind of breath work five to ten times a day. You know, that’s not forty-five minutes of breath work in the morning and at night. You know, it’s even whilst you’re speaking, sometimes I’m consciously breathing a little bit slower. Maybe I can feel my shoulders a little bit shrugged up because I’m on a podcast and his camera’s here and his lights on. You it’s a little bit of a different stressful environment. So it’s being kind of going back to that word awareness, it’s being mindful and aware of
how I’m feeling, how I’m breathing, so I can hopefully try and articulate and communicate the best that I can. So yeah, corporates are stressed, they’re overwhelmed, individuals struggle to manage their emotional state and hopefully these techniques that I provide them can can shift and change that.
speaker-1 (32:08.494)
Who potentially need something to attach it to, and maybe this brings it back to the objective conversation. And I’m just thinking about some of my current clients, and and this isn’t a men and and women, but a lot of the the the few people popping into my mind right now, they are they are are all men. They work a lot, they like to be on, they like to be stimulated. They call it stimulated, I call it.
It’s a version of stress, but they prefer the word stimulation. Their HR they they train, they eat pretty well, you know, they’re doing they’re ticking a lot of the boxes, but their HRV, so heart rate variability for anyone who isn’t sure, is very low. In the twenties. Is that
speaker-0 (32:51.088)
Hello, we’re talking. Yeah, that’s low.
speaker-1 (32:56.308)
stress and if they start to anchor in and I’ve been trying to recommend, you know, some other recovery practices other than HRV, how else might that show up? And if it is implementing some of these recovery protocols or breath work into their life, what type of changes might they see with their HRV?
speaker-0 (33:17.004)
Yeah, I mean I mean twenty’s low f for for one. HR is a funny one because it has become pretty popular over the last maybe three or four years. So people looking at their resting heart rate and obviously wanting a low resting heart rate and looking at your heart rate variability and wanting a high heart rate variability. beats in millisecond time in millisecond between beats, right? And
The higher that your HRV is, the more balanced your nervous system is between your parasympathetic and your sympathetic. Look at your HRV as a baseline. So if you have a whoop or if you’re wearing some kind of wear, we’ll look at it what your average is over seven days. If it’s a we’ll say 50 for a round number, if it’s a 50, what are the lifestyle shifts and changes that you can make and implement to try and increase that baseline? Don’t compare yourself to anyone else. That’s something that I’ve seen people get.
thrown into that sort of trap quite often. They say, Errol’s Errol’s got 250, you know, Errol’s is two hundred and fifty, you know, mine’s at f at fifty. If yours is at fifty, yours will never be at two hundred and fifty. Like I just won’t. but the that individual who’s maybe at fifty could improve it to eighty. You know, and if Errol was drinking a lot postseason, then his would be down up say a hundred.
You know, so i i it fluctuates but everyone has a baseline. so these you know, these lifestyle changes could be anything from sleep hygiene, sleep quality, it could be breathing, definitely nutrition, your saunas, more recovery modalities, less work, better c better social connections, more time with your kids. so it’s very lifestyle oriented.
speaker-1 (34:58.582)
It’s probably a good place to to mention Sensara. Have I said that? Yeah. Perfect. So I guess, you know, we’re talking about corporates being burnt out and and this, but we’re also seeing this wave which you’re involved with as well with the, you know, luxury wellness clubs and the rise of these kind of facilities. so congratulations. Thank you. When is it opening?
speaker-0 (35:02.902)
F
speaker-0 (35:20.408)
We’ll be opening in September. Yeah. Yeah, we’ve been working on it for about four years. You know, I I’m a bit shit at n not talking about things. I’m not very good at the old social media. So I this kinda happened with the book where all of a sudden I was like, Hey, I wrote a book. And I was like, Dude, what? Why haven’t you been speaking about it? And I just I never really talk about things until they’re done. but we’re on site, we’re building, it’s gonna be a beautiful facility in here in Sydney and Double Bay. We have a a studio with about twenty six mats. We got a
open gym, all techno gym equipment, great bathhouse with the with sauna, magnesium pools, coal coal plunges. Got a great restaurant, breakfast, lunch, dinner. so there’s just everything that you would want as an individual to improve your well being under one roof. I think our my motivation with this was, you know, how much I’ve enjoyed travelling over the years and living in London for six years, university and in Australia
What we have done really well for the past maybe five to ten years is these kind of group training facilities, functional fitness call it off the back of that F forty five sort of boom. We went from F forty five that kind of circuit stuff into then more your functional fitness. I’m not gonna name any names or brands, but your black and white branding, you know, your your Monday, Wednesday, Fridays are your strength, your Tuesday, Thursday, your conditioning, you know, the drill. And I thought, well, you know, why don’t we make a a lifestyle club? You know, ’cause this is well well being, wellness as a lifestyle.
where truly I would was spend a whole day there. You know, I could I could be in the restaurant, have my breakfast with you and then we could flick up flick open our laptops, do a bit of work, then we could train, then we could do some more work, then we can do a sauna, you know, it’s everything under one roof, provided in a really nice environment and and hospitality driven and design led.
speaker-1 (37:09.954)
Fantastic. Yeah. It looks amazing. and it nearly feels like an inflection point. it feels like an inflection point that people might be feeling a certain way, but they’re understanding they want to make a change, people are making a change, there’s more access. And while some of these services to an extent, you know, come with a price tag. If we anchor back to the conversation here, which is the foundational elements, breath that costs you nothing. You can tap into that.
nutrition, you’re already spending money on it, and my recommendations are not going to be go and get a $14 adaptagen latte. I mean do that if you want to, but that’s not my foundational recommendation. I do want to work through some breath work practices. And and I’ve also, which I don’t always do, do some deep breathing in the background. It’s something I do want to be more conscious of, but maybe just having you sitting across from me, it’s it’s been more conscious.
But I thought it would be interesting to include a a wearable so I can actually put some metrics on it. I am really mindful, again, this isn’t a like everyone must have a wearable, but a lot of people do use them these days. And I do think when you’re struggling with like a body-mind connection, they just help put an objective on something which can reinforce that behaviour.
speaker-0 (38:31.166)
One hundred percent. I th I think they’re they’re great tools for gaining better understanding of the brain and body. I think I think they’re so so popular these days. I c whoop came out with their valuation or something stupid, like four billion, wasn’t it? Was it ten? Yeah. I mean, jeez, that’s a lot of money. So like, you know, people are enjoying them. I think we have to be very mindful of how we use them. They are tools. I think you know
speaker-1 (38:45.678)
I think it was ten boots.
speaker-0 (38:58.37)
People get s stuck in or sucked into the trap of, my whoop says this, therefore I am, if that makes sense. Or, you know, I’ve woken up and I’m in the red, therefore I d sit and do nothing all day. It’s like you know, y I think it’s very important to look at trends, as I mentioned slightly with the HRV, look at a five or seven day trend. You know, if you’re looking at one day and thinking that you’ve had poor recovery, you know, I mean, come on. Like y y you know if I took my whoop for gospel every single day
And you know, I’ve had seven days in a red because I’m just stressed and I have a few things going on in my life and you know, maybe similar for you, you know, if your the baby’s been up all night, you know, you’re not gonna be able to sit here and do podcasts, you just gotta keep going. So I think it’s very important to use them as tools, but just be mindful of how how you interpret that information.
speaker-1 (39:47.436)
Yeah, for me they just helped me make decisions.
I think as we’re getting the the Woot by app out before it I nearly thought, my gosh, my recovery’s twenty seven percent. I’m in the red today. As in like I’m a little bit embarrassed for you to see that. But you know, for me that was just going, okay, well this morning I have to exercise, I have to get sunlight, I ha like all these things that I do, but when I really need to double down just to like what are the other controllables around me, because I knew I was coming in here. I wanted to be focused and present and feel as good as possible. The way
speaker-0 (40:19.512)
I’m not gonna I’m not gonna whip shame you, don’t worry.
speaker-1 (40:21.134)
And also a bit of like positive reinforcement on like I can do this and I feel good and I know my stuff and you know I know the guests coming in rather than sitting here going, my god, Millie was up and she was crying and all the things and hijacking myself because then I am gonna feel that a lot more.
speaker-0 (40:37.358)
And think I think the way I’ve used w over the years is if for example I’ve had two or three days in a red, then I’ll say to myself, Okay, let’s really focus on my health now moving forward for the next five days. So get to bed at, you know, eight or eight thirty, wake up at five, focus on that sleep hygiene, do my breath work in the evening, ’cause maybe I forgot the prior two evenings. So it’s more of a
I I often think about my whoop as my on risk coach. You know, it’s just it’s just a little reminder. You know, and it doesn’t have to be aggressive, it doesn’t have to be, you know, you messed up, therefore you are hopeless and useless and worthless, you know, if if you’ve had two days in a red. All right, maybe I drink some more water today, maybe I get to bed a little bit earlier. yeah.
speaker-1 (41:24.514)
Yeah, I like it when it I see it as kind of like detecting what might be ahead before I actually feel it and that’s where I see the benefits. Same, I might be feeling okay, but if something’s showing and brewing or there’s behavioural elements feeding into it, it’s just a bit of a like, hey, be a little bit mindful, yeah, what what can you control to to double down on. Okay, so I’ve just picked up my my whoop and I’ve got my heart rate. And so at the moment I’m sitting around one five to one ten.
speaker-0 (41:54.412)
Which is normal wh whilst we’ve been speaking. Yeah.
speaker-1 (41:56.738)
Yep. And so I’d I’d love to you can choose whichever technique and maybe we just even thirty seconds or a minute just to kind of see and how that shows up in this kind of response. Yep. To give people a little bit of an idea. Again, this is for me, but just to show what can actually happen in a really short period of time.
speaker-0 (42:16.347)
I think give me your phone. Okay. So that you’re so that you’re not thinking about it.
speaker-1 (42:18.956)
Ha.
Repetitively checking in on myself.
speaker-0 (42:24.308)
Okay, close on your eyes, Jess. Close in your eyes.
speaker-0 (42:30.35)
You’re very lucky. Yeah. Eyes are closed, the body’s relaxed. You’re just breathing normally and breathing naturally for now. You’re not changing the rhythm of the breath. You’re just breathing normally, breathing naturally. We’re going to move into four six breathing. Very simply breathing in for four seconds and gently, effortlessly breathing out for six seconds.
speaker-1 (42:56.812)
Nose and then mouth.
speaker-0 (42:58.156)
All nose. Nose nose. So to begin we’ll take a breath in and out.
Let’s breathe in two three four out two three four five six in two three four out two three four five six in two three four out two three four.
five, six, in, two, three, four, out, two, three, four, five, six. One more,
And out.
speaker-0 (43:56.674)
And just begin to breathe normally and naturally. Blinking, open your eyes. Seventy eight. So you went from a hundred and a hundred and ten to seventy eight in four breaths, four or five breaths.
speaker-1 (44:06.126)
Here we are.
speaker-1 (44:14.592)
Okay.
speaker-0 (44:16.226)
So the best way to describe that technique is by lengthening the exhale. Our inhale is sympathetic driven, fight-of-flight high arousal, your exhale is parasympathetic driven, rest and digest low arousal. So if you want to move into that more relaxed and calm parasympathetic state, you just lengthen the exhale. Yeah. If you want to move into a more energized state, you just put the emphasis on the inhale.
I I very rarely would use the emphasis on the inhale apart from before you know before Rowan goes out to the blocks. Yep. Something like that. But that’s pretty good. Yeah. Thirty beats within four breaths.
speaker-1 (44:53.366)
I do have a question about the hold, the four and the six. But I feel like the you know, the four and the six gets kind of lumped. Or maybe they’re all just different techniques under the the the same umbrella, but there’s, you know, your box breathing which has a hold. Yep. The four six seven or the four seven eight or what you know, there’s there’s different techniques. What is the hold doing?
speaker-0 (45:12.75)
There’s a lot of numbers out there. Yeah. What’s the point? What is So yeah, I mean I I hear what you’re saying. There’s there’s the four seven eight, I can’t remember who brought that to the mainstream. Box breathing was from Mark Devine. He’s got a popular podcast and and he’s done some great things with the Navy SEALs. F box breathing is good for focus and concentration. It would not be my go to for down regulating or relaxation. It is kind of been been spoken about for a relaxation
purpose. However, I would use it as a as a focus, concentration, and more of a balancing technique. You breathe in for four seconds, you hold for four seconds, that hold at the top isn’t too challenging because you’ve got oxygen within your lungs and therefore it’s a little bit more comfortable. Then you exhale for four, which can feel like quite a long time for someone who’s got poor ability to withstand CO2 or poor CO2 tolerance, bolt score, etc. Then if you hold your breath at the bottom with Lex Lex
Then if you hold your breath at the bottom with less oxygen and higher CO2, that can cause a stress response. So even though box breathing has become mainstream, there’s a not there’s not a huge amount of literature on it. There’s a there’s a huge amount of literature on four-six breathing. It’s it’s just because some guy spoke about it a lot and used it with the military that people just use it.
My I very rarely will use box breathing with clients, with patients individually. I will use four six breathing multiple times throughout the day.
speaker-1 (46:46.994)
So interesting. Yeah, I haven’t heard that get discussed before. It nearly kind of feels like the where my brain goes is everyone has to do ten thousand steps, which really was just like a marketing campaign from
speaker-0 (46:59.042)
Well, and then you to to jump back to your your question as well, that the aspect of of breath holds stress can be positive, as you and I know. Conscious stress for positive adaptation. If you’re wanting to improve your CO2 tolerance, your ability to withstand high levels of CO two in the body to stress less in the future and become more resilient, conscious breath holds can be good. Light breathing, slow breathing, nasal breathing and breath holds can be good for CO2 tolerance.
Often stress isn’t about the feeling but it’s whether or not you’re in control of it or not, right? So if you’re in con if you’re in control of that stress response, then it’s a positive thing. so yeah, understanding if you are in control of the stress or if the stress is in control of you is important.
speaker-1 (47:42.498)
You’re an athlete, you’re a facilitator, you’re traveling around the the country, you know, you’ve you’ve got a lot going on. And so I’d love to know within all everything that you’ve got in your toolkit, what are the three habits or non-negotiables that help you, Rory Warnock, stay at the top?
speaker-0 (48:00.992)
Exercise i is is so important to me. you know, so running and being able to run, being able to move, being able to sweat. So exercise you know, breath work has just become so innately part of me. So I use up every day multiple times throughout the day, even when I’m sitting here on a podcast. And then and then relationships. You know, I really value relationships with my friends, with my family.
So just keeping in in contact with good people and having good people around to have a strong support network. I can get in my own head and and life can be hard for a lot of us and having the right people around me to help me when I need a bit s bit of support and you know, a bit of a pat pat on the back can be useful. So yeah, my I could probably name quite a few here, but my three non negotiables would probably have to be in no particular order. Exercise and movement.
connection and and breathing techniques.
speaker-1 (49:05.324)
Yeah. I’m sure a lot of people have enjoyed today’s conversation. So if they head to the link in the show notes, there’ll be the book, there’ll be details about Sansar if you’re based in Sydney. and where is the best place for people to connect or follow along with with what you share.
speaker-0 (49:23.48)
Thanks Jess. Instagram. Just Rory Warnock underscore keep in touch. yeah, all the stuff will be there.
speaker-1 (49:31.182)
Well thank you for joining me, fresh off your 50Ks with the body being a little bit sore, but no, appreciate you coming in. I feel like we could talk for for hours if not days on on shared philosophies and alignment and and fortunately clients as well. but thank you for making time and yeah I really appreciate you joining me here.
speaker-0 (49:51.714)
Thank you. Well I really I really appreciate and value what you do as well. So thank you for having me.
speaker-1 (49:55.726)
I wanna thank you all for tuning in for another episode of Stay at the Top. I will be back again with a solo episode next week, helping you all not only reach the top, but sustainably stay there. I’ll see you all then.