What do elite sport and high pressure business environments have in common? Everything.
In this episode of Stay at the Top, I am joined by Ezio Mormile. Ezio is a keynote speaker, mindset and leadership coach, and the creator of the Corporate Athlete Program, a framework built on eight pillars designed to help people operate at their best in demanding environments.
Ezio works across boards, senior leadership teams, high growth businesses and elite athletes, teaching them how to develop tactical awareness, protect their mental and emotional energy, and build the systems that enable long term performance. He brings a rare perspective that blends sport, psychology, leadership and human behaviour.
This conversation is filled with practical tools, powerful stories and actionable insights. It is an ideal way to reflect on how you have been operating this year and start considering how you want to show up in 2026.
In this episode Ezio shares:
- The eight pillars of the Corporate Athlete methodology
- Why sport and business share the same performance foundations
- Tactical awareness and why it separates top performers from everyone else
- How to manage energy, focus and recovery in high pressure seasons
- The difference between intensity and consistency
- Why self leadership is the foundation of leading others
- How purpose, identity and values shape long term performance
- What it means to build your personal operating system
- The questions every high performer should be asking themselves right now
Key Quotes
“Elite sport and business have everything in common. The people who stay at the top are the ones with systems that support consistent performance.”
“Intensity gets you started. Consistency keeps you there.”
“Awareness is the starting point. You cannot improve what you do not recognise.”
Episode Resources
Website – https://www.thecorporateathleteway.com/
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mormile/
Jessica Spendlove Website – www.jessicaspendlove.com
Jessica Spendlove Keynotes – JessicaspendloveKeynotes – Jessica Spendlove
The High-Performance Profile Quiz https://jessicaspendlove.com/quiz/
Jess Spendlove Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jess_spendlove_dietitian/?hl=en
Jess Spendlove LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-spendlove-64173bb8/
About Ezio
Ezio has spent decade inside elite sport — working from the boardroom to locker-room, with players and coaches from the English Premier League, the Matildas, UCI cycling champions, including international cup winners — as well as twenty years coaching, leading and training global teams across organisations such as Amazon, Cisco and Telstra.
At a personal level, for 30 years, Ezio has kept a personal journal (longer than most of the athletes he works with have been alive), written his own eulogy in 1996 which he reviews weekly, studied psychology at Charles Sturt University, and raised five children —all shaping his lessons on resilience, energy, and purpose.
Ezio combines all of this and developed the ‘Corporate Athlete Model’, challenging and equipping professionals in the corporate world to think, talk and walk like Corporate Athletes.
About Your Host
Jessica Spendlove | Wellbeing Speaker & High Performance Strategist
Jess Spendlove is an international wellbeing and high performance speaker, coach, and advisor. With over 15 years of experience across corporate leadership, elite sport and the military she is known for helping ambitious leaders and teams optimise energy, build resilience, and sustain peak performance.
As one of Australia’s leading performance dietitians and a trusted voice in executive wellbeing, Jess delivers science-backed strategies that empower individuals, teams and organisations to thrive under pressure and achieve long-term success.
Episode Transcript
The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy
Jess Spendlove (00:11.618)
What do elite sport and high pressure business environments have in common? Everything. The people who stay at the top are the ones with a system that support consistent performance, not just intensity. And in today’s episode, I’m joined by Ezio Moore-Mile, who is a keynote speaker, a mindset and a leadership coach. And he is the creator of the Corporate Athlete Program.
Ezio takes us inside his methodology and breaks down the eight pillars that he uses that underpins all of his coaching and speaking from executives to elite athletes. And this is how he helps them operate at their best. In this episode, you can expect practical tools, so many real world examples, amazing quotes and plenty of aha moments.
Jess Spendlove (01:11.692)
This episode really is the ideal way for you to close out the year, reflect on how you’ve been operating, and then have that percolating around for how do you want to show up in 2026.
Jess Spendlove (01:32.12)
Today’s conversation was effortless. had so much gold in there. And I know every single person listening is going to get so much value out of Ezio’s methodology and his work. He was so generous in everything that he shared. So on that note, let’s dive into today’s episode.
Jess Spendlove (00:03.886)
Okay.
Jess Spendlove (00:24.33)
Ezio Mormile, I’m so excited that you’re joining me on Stay at the Top today. Thank you for your time.
Ezio Mormile (00:30.834)
My pleasure, Jess. Great to reconnect. Hope you’re being well.
Jess Spendlove (00:34.476)
All good here. Now, the people just want the information. So let’s dive into your expertise. I know that we both have a similar philosophy on the parallels between sport and business. And so I guess just to jump into it from your side of things, where do you see the crossover between leaders, executives and elite athletes?
Ezio Mormile (00:50.994)
Yep.
Ezio Mormile (01:00.64)
are immense. you look at both, both roles are performing under pressure of an intense change, uncertainty, all of those elements, things they can’t control, hero to zero overnight, everything is measured, numbers drive everything, you’ve kind of always got to turn up.
at your best, or at least for those key moments, you’ve got to understand the strategy, you’re working in a team environment, there’s all of those things coming together. So I think that’s why I like.
combining the two for me that’s the reality. We’ve got hungry competitors, you’re always trying to reinvent yourself and that to me you could be talking to a CEO like yourself or an athlete or coach of the sporting teams and it’s a very, very similar environment. The crossroads again and you would see two in your profession. So that’s what excites me and like in the corporate world they always look
for more, they’re looking for that competitive edge, they’re looking for that extra 1 % or that new idea. So it’s a really exciting space but there’s enormous synergies between the two and hence why I have a lot of fun working between them.
Jess Spendlove (02:20.686)
Yeah, I agree. I love the blend of the two because so much translates and kind of both want to know what’s working in the other world and there’s so much that can be learned and leveraged. And I guess a lot of that has probably led to what you’re known for, which is the corporate athlete and the methodology and the framework you’ve got around that. That’s where I really want to spend today’s conversation really diving into that because I know it really underpins.
you’re coaching and you’re speaking and everything that you do. And people get the concept. I think it’s fantastic when we talk about business leaders and people in the corporate world and talking about them as an athlete, because as we’ve touched on, they are athletes. They’re enduring immense pressure, they’re a combination of the daily sprint and the marathon. how do we do all of this? And yet at the same time, we both know there’s more stress, there’s more burnout.
So what we’re doing isn’t necessarily working, but if we can take methodology and strategies from other areas, then that can help support that. So thinking of this framework, can you just give us a bit of an overview and touch on, I guess, the pillars that underpin it? And then we’re gonna dive into each of those, because I’m really keen to hear your thoughts on each of those.
Ezio Mormile (03:44.092)
Yeah, definitely. I’ll take you through the model and the foundations of it. A big element though, I just want to point out for context that is underpinned on, which also relates, as you pointed out, clearly to the corporate world, is around talent development, developing players and talent. The reason why I want to point that out is in my journey, had a big aha moment about nine years ago, working with some European coaches.
predominantly from Portugal.
And that interest, so soccer is interesting just not to get into detailed sports, but soccer is one of the few sports I’m aware of, football, where they have a transfer fee. So that’s very important, which means when you sell a player, you get part of that fee. So there is a massive incentive for soccer clubs to develop talent at a young, young age, and then sell it and make considerable profits. And some clubs make billions. It’s, it’s, so they use this model. So it’s an interest. So essentially,
Their players will have pretty much a share price so they will buy a 14 year old or 16 year old or get them for nothing They will develop them over a six seven year journey very specific development plan physically mentally technically tactically Psychologically with the intention of selling that player for much much more so that this share price concept of you know Jessica at the moment is worth a dollar, but we can
and see the potential, the vision. And we, as a leadership group, we are gonna develop her holistically. I’m gonna sell her for a lot of money, right? She’ll make money, we’ll make money, but we’re gonna make a lot of money. And that’s measured. You can go online and the Portuguese club.
Ezio Mormile (05:34.854)
that I came across with and through a wonderful gentleman called Sergio Ramondes, who’s a great point in this space, they every year in the top three globally for transfer fees. So against Manchester United, Liverpool, we’re talking hundreds of millions, billions. So I just wanted to say, because that really got me thinking too about the corporate space, about how we do and don’t develop talent. That mindset for me, I loved it. And that’s one thing I’ve taken into this model where you look at every staff member and think, okay,
What’s their share price today? What’s their potential?
And what do we need to do in terms of leadership coaching support to get them there to get them there and Also gets me thinking about you know, are the growth stocks? Which stocks are in decline and my growth stock? What am I doing to grow my share price? It’s interesting about staying relative and or so I just want to underpin it That was a big moment for me because I’ve never seen put that put into action and just that mindset as opposed to some clubs so the big big
they will just buy players already developed from these kind of clubs. But these development clubs, that’s how they survive and thrive. And so I just, to me, that’s a big underpinning element that I think even in the corporate world, we can learn from around looking at our people and saying, okay, where are they today? How do we develop them? So there was a big, big concept for me around the share price. The model itself starts around energy and finishes with focus. So energy, and you would see this so much
in your space, Jess, I read this beautiful quote. I say I pinch everything, if I come up across a good idea or model, I have no shame, I pinch it. have no…
Jess Spendlove (07:20.972)
You synthesize it. You bring it together.
Ezio Mormile (07:22.723)
Yeah Yes, if I can remember where I go from I’ll happily acknowledge them and I think this was the Chief People Officer of Microsoft and she said we’re facing a human energy crisis like you would see it in your profession just People are exhausted fatigued. We’re trying to do so much with shorter timeframes
Jess Spendlove (07:29.008)
you
Ezio Mormile (07:46.886)
higher expectations, know, last year’s records become this year’s baseline. So this is whole element around managing our energy and turning up at the right time with the right levels of energy. And that involves from my end being conscious of our energy levels and then being conscious of what we can do to manage it. And you would know better than me in this space, the elements here around diet, sleep.
which typically we can struggle with for different reasons. It’s four o’clock in the morning here and some people have young children and different things. Athletes have young children, right? That’s interesting to have. Fans don’t see that at the back and I have athletes that have children that don’t sleep, right? also how we manage time, you know.
and the isolation of managing time. So that’s a whole energy piece I take people through around being aware of the energy levels, managing the energy levels, resting and relaxation. So again, you would see this in your profession. Athletes have an off season, right? Typically, what do we do in the, you know, we are approaching the end of the calendar year here in December and Christmas.
where some of us will take a few weeks off, maybe have a vacation. The research shows actually that could be quite stressful time of the year anyway. There’s a lot happening.
trying to organise, run around, catch up with people, eat too much food. So it’s not always that relaxing. And then we come back and we go to this big sprint till the end of the financial year, June, and then there’s no off season. We just tick over, right? And so even building rest into our day, relaxation, Jim Law, again, I pinched that, but he did some great work on tennis players many years ago where he was measuring heart rates and noticed how they would use
Ezio Mormile (09:42.97)
the serve to drop their heart rate and during a game to manage the energy. So yeah that’s a big element in the model and just for us around managing our level of energy because of everything that’s happening around the world and that’s the foundation.
Jess Spendlove (09:58.093)
And do you see that as your first starting point? Like we need to start here, like with you, it’s a kind of a clear, like not just the pillars, but the order in which they build to get the best or build the momentum or, you know, have the certain skills or capacity to then dive into the next. Is that how you view it?
Ezio Mormile (10:18.319)
That’s a great question, not necessarily. In fact, I would often start at the last element, which is purpose, and I’ll come back to that, which is why people are playing sport or in business, what their goals are on and off the field. And I often will drive that and kind of reverse engineer that back into that. I keep that one last because to me, it is the ultimate element around the why, right?
Why are they doing this? What’s driving them to do it? And then chunking that down to different elements. But it’s a great question. It’s a great question. So I think kind of reverse engineering, we start with energy around managing energy. I got a cringe because say I pinch everything I read I think about two or three years ago at an investor briefing, the CEO of Netflix was asked his number one competitor. And he said, sleep.
and I cringed right I still cringe because I thought wow it is it’s like a war you know for his for their KPIs they want us to stay up longer but it’s another challenge we have in my view just around um just the consumption of our energy and trying to multitask as well
Jess Spendlove (11:21.081)
dear.
Ezio Mormile (11:37.383)
There’s so much to do. So I start with energy, then I move and so because athletes teach us a lot around energy, right? They rest, they relax, they train really hard, but they have a lot of time off. We…
Jess Spendlove (11:50.127)
Well, they have and the thing I like to call out with the corporates is they have specialists in all these areas kind of forcing them. You know, they’re not left to their own devices to just come up with all of this and listen to the podcasts and implement the protocols and it can be really hard and you know, I love that you’ve started with energy. Energy is one of my big themes and one of my key points is energy is not just something you have, it’s something you create. And like you said, all of these things you’ve touched on.
Ezio Mormile (12:12.454)
Yep.
Jess Spendlove (12:19.214)
how we actually create it. And importantly to that it’s not sitting back reactively waiting till we’re hungry, waiting till we’re tired, waiting till you know, the 3pm energy crash, we’re actually creating a bit of a rhythm to elevate, optimize and sustain it. But I think really important for people to, to get the concept that yeah, athletes do this because they’ve got specialists.
Ezio Mormile (12:33.723)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (12:44.738)
helping them and I’m sure you agree and that’s part of your mission. Like that’s why the corporates need the different specialists as well because if you’re just relying on your own energy and capacity to try and implement all these things, that’s tiring within itself.
Ezio Mormile (12:46.022)
Yes.
Ezio Mormile (13:01.351)
100 % a lot of specialist support right many different coaches many different coaches like yourself and then different elements I’ll get on to technical next but you have many different coaches for different areas and routine Highly structured highly highly structured Everything the whole week is planned, you know, I’ve got apps here with the teams I work with and it will the week I remember I was traveling with a team to Thailand a few months back
And my wife asked me in the morning, oh, who are you flying with? I said, oh, I don’t know. She said, I’ve no idea. She goes, oh, what do you mean? I oh, we just turn up at a certain time at the airport. That’s where we’ll meet. And then we’ll get a bus, sorry, to the airport. And then we’ll get tickets. It’s just…
Structured, there’s one less thing to think about, So yeah, that’s the energy. That’s right. But the structure, the routine, and there’s a lot of research behind that is very helpful. Very helpful. And then I move into technical. So technical for me is an interesting space because I’m actually not a, I’m not a sport geek. I don’t really love, love, love sport. I don’t get up early in the morning and watch sport. I watch my athletes and that stuff. But.
Jess Spendlove (13:49.422)
Someone else’s job.
Ezio Mormile (14:18.777)
One of the other things with the athletes, if you move to technical, is they are very, very specific for each position on what gets measured and what good looks like. And they’ll have like some of the athletes I work with in different sports, might have a criteria of 24 things they need to do in a game to do their role well. And those things, they are measurable. From kicking and passing to leg speed.
aerial jumping, all those things. Which then got me thinking in the corporate world, Jess, about from a technical perspective, what are the actual core skills?
we need to do specifically to do our jobs well. And I love asking that question to corporates. Because often we struggle with it. The job description, for example, is often irrelevant, like it’s outdated or it’s something that people joke about it. They’re going like, yeah, they’re And then when you ask them to think, they’ll come up with generic things. And then when you ask them to kind of drill down, them and their leaders to say, in a perfect week, what are the actual six, seven, eight, nine things you need to do?
to do that job well, whether it’s listening skills, but even technical skills around engineering or drafting or anything, using systems and processes. And then, by the way, what are the skills you’ll need for the future? Because our jobs are changing just so quickly, right? Where you kind of go like a linear years time.
I’ll need to do my job differently, at least 10%, 15%, because it’s changing, whether it’s technology, new research, whatever. So that’s an interesting one for me, asking and working with teams and executives around what’s for particular roles in the organisation, what are the six, seven things. And of course, that then comes down to clarity for the individual around what actually…
Ezio Mormile (16:15.055)
what is it that I need to do and do it? What are the specific things and the skills that underpin that? Because once we know the skills, we can then look at how we improve those, right? Those specific skills, which might be again with other coaches, right? So that’s another thing just quickly. That’s one of the differences I find.
In sport, the feedback from the coach generally very specific and instant, right? And you’re living in videos to support it. you know, coach will say, you know, you didn’t do this this year, but you could have done this. What should have you done here? Whatever in the corporate world, we have, you know, one review a year and it can be pretty generic, right? With not much evidence, not much evidence. So, yeah, that’s the tech. That’s the technical element of the model.
Jess Spendlove (16:59.766)
And do you think that element is probably becoming even more important now we’re having conversation? Well, now we’re living a hybrid world for some roles. And then I guess the conversation around the four day work week and how we’re starting to get people to think about like productivity and actually achieving the tasks that the role requires as opposed to the like nine to five, five days a week. Do you think that’s going to be even more important?
Ezio Mormile (17:27.687)
You ask such great questions, yes. The hybrid one in particular, because I go back to the coaching sport situation. How do we coach someone around skills and their job when we’re actually in another state? As you and I are here, different time zone. And in reality, there’s, you know,
You’re my boss and we catch up once a week on a call or a team meeting. You don’t really observe me interacting with clients. So you don’t really see the skills demonstrated. You see what we have, you you and I talking now. So yes, it is a challenge. There are other ways we can do that with, you know.
supporting cause with commission and things like that. But yeah, I agree. But the fundamental element from my end is if the leader and the employee aren’t clear themselves and aligned on what those skills are, then it’s very hard to observe them, to measure them and improve them. I go back to that share price concept, right? Otherwise we’re saying, it’s a classic thing where we’re saying, if it was a golf coach, for example, it’s almost like his 200 balls hit them.
go away and send some emails and I’ll come back in an hour and we’ll talk about it, right? There’s no real observation of it. And again, I would say, and I’ve done this with organisations, where you ask the leadership and the employees to write down the key skills and they’re not aligned for the same job, but that can happen. But you’re right, is getting harder is one of the challenges.
Jess Spendlove (19:02.006)
And imagine it’s one of those things in this instance before we move on to the next. Like sometimes it’s taking a step back, slowing down to actually accelerate. it’s like same as sport. Like when something’s not working and we’ve got to clear players out and start from scratch, like that’s actually going to be a better thing for the culture and the longer term vision.
Ezio Mormile (19:05.989)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (19:10.8)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (19:16.24)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (19:21.339)
Completely, yeah, good call. Very interesting.
Jess Spendlove (19:25.036)
What’s next on your model in your list?
Ezio Mormile (19:28.241)
Tactical, so tactical is interesting. So players and coaches, and you’ve got a lot of experience, a lot of different teams, spend hours each week watching themselves, how they’re playing.
watching the competition and preparing for the competition, ensuring they have a tactical plan and understanding the industry and what’s going to happen, right? The game and those kind of things, the environment. So I then translate that to the corporate world. Tactically, for example, no player will run on the field without understanding the game plan, right? They understand the game, they must execute the game plan.
I often ask in the corporate world, I’ll give someone a marker pen or something, or ask them to articulate, for example, their company’s strategy in one minute, right? And then their team’s strategy. And then what a perfect week looks like.
And then I love asking this question, I pinch everything, all the questions. Why do you win? Why do you win deals? Because teams know, sporting teams know why they win. And they also know why they lose. Do we know we lose? How well do we understand our industry, our respective industry, that you and I and our clients work in?
How well do we know the trends? know, we spoke about jobs of the future, where we’re looking and things like that. So because, and that’s why I say tactical is key, because the athletes and the sporting teams, they spend a lot of time on that. Even the planning is interesting. They would never run onto the field without a plan.
Ezio Mormile (20:57.671)
We turn out for a whole week, it’s Monday morning, and some businesses, we just go through the motions, So it’s kind of having that alignment. What do we need to do by the end of…
It’s funny, you and I at start of the call were just talking about how much we got on. But part of it is also because of your awareness. You know how much you got on, because you’ve mapped it out. Sometimes, I love the quote, there’s a great quote I came across once. Again, it’s not mine. Someone said there’s one advantage in not having a plan. Do you know what it is? One advantage.
Jess Spendlove (21:33.582)
just flying, well it wouldn’t be the words, but you know, you’re just flying by the seat of the pants, you know, you’re just like, you…
Ezio Mormile (21:39.698)
Yes, yes, not a worry in the world, and failure comes as a complete and utter surprise, you know. But when you’re planning, you can see what’s ahead, and you know, the challenges. So yeah, the big one there is around the tactical awareness, understanding. Just quickly, it’s an interesting one.
Jess Spendlove (21:46.39)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (21:51.342)
Hmm.
Ezio Mormile (22:00.29)
So in the last World Cup, the player who ran the least, like per minute, was Lionel Messi, right? And he was player of the tournament. Why? His tactical awareness of knowing where to stand, read the play, is brilliant. So for us in the corporate world, how well can we read the play? How well do we know what’s happening in the industry? How well do we understand our customer? How well do really understand what our customer’s trying to do? How well do we understand how we align to that?
Jess Spendlove (22:15.662)
Mmm.
Ezio Mormile (22:30.153)
That’s the tactical element.
Jess Spendlove (22:32.622)
This is powerful. I’m loving it. I’m like, yes. Right once and I can say, I mean, they’re all opportunities, but that in itself, like, that would be a huge gap, would assume in the core of all of them. I imagine that’s probably one of the biggest because again, it’s just a time and it’s a capacity element. But sometimes it’s like when we make the time when we actually
Ezio Mormile (22:35.143)
You
Ezio Mormile (22:43.377)
Yay.
Ezio Mormile (22:48.73)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (22:59.832)
can answer these questions and define what a win and not let that is actually going to move the needle more forward.
Ezio Mormile (23:06.214)
Yeah.
100%. But that involves awareness. That takes me to the next element, which is emotional intelligence and communication. So this is an interesting one too, because communication, including with athletes in the sporting world, I don’t think he’s always taught that world. This is a reflection of mine. It’s actually a big issue for athletes, especially in team sports, because you have people that are introverted, extroverted, age gaps, massive age gaps, massive age gaps. So in teams like the Matildas and that, you could have, you know,
a 35 year old and a 17 year old. And so that impacts, and that 17 year old, she could be in a position where she actually has to talk a lot because she can see certain things happening. And the 35 year old is relying on that, is relying on that. This could be a 35 year old iconic player, but she is relying on that communication and insight instantly. This 17 year old is, know. So that’s an interesting challenge for athletes around communication. But in the sporting, in the,
and not often taught around their development. But it is the share price concept, right? Because we need them to communicate. Need them to communicate well with confidence and clarity and quickly, because things are moving really quickly. And the team needs that. In the corporate world, communication, emotional intelligence as well around understanding different behaviour types. So we run the disc profile with a great Bo Henson with the sporting club understanding, you know, it’s a team dynamic. So one of the things in sporting teams and in the corporate world that we have in
is we don’t really choose our team, right? We turn up to work and we’re one team, but we don’t choose the team. The team changes, as you mentioned earlier, quicker. I think on average the teams I work with, they change every year by about 30%. But in the corporate space, that could be similar. A lot of turnover. So understanding people’s different behavior styles, communication styles, whether they’re introverted, extroverted. Some people are more direct.
Jess Spendlove (24:54.062)
Yeah. Huge.
Ezio Mormile (25:08.743)
Some people are more closed and straight talkers. This is an interesting one around, you know, I was working with a team I work with and I asked the question, who are the straight talkers in the room? And of like 45, five put their hand up, including the coach, because we’re talking about trust and conflict. And…
One of the people in the room actually said, are the rest of you liars? Which then I went out and bought the book, Surrounded by Idiots. I don’t know if you’ve read that book, but it’s around different behaviour types. And I actually said, said, look, I was caught out a little bit, I was at the front and I said, look, I’m not a straight talker. I’m not a straight talker. My wife is, but I’m not. And we have different styles. And I find that quickly culturally as well. So in soccer, for example, the soccer team
Jess Spendlove (25:53.646)
you
Ezio Mormile (26:01.863)
I work with.
Sometimes we’ll have translators that actually don’t all speak English and some overseas will have this is an interesting challenge for Young boys and girls by the way in football soccer when they go overseas that they’re not always prepared for they have a coach and the coach She’s wonderful. She’s Spanish doesn’t speak English. Good luck or German and that’s a big change but yeah adapting to different styles and actual communication including something I’m not doing now because I’m talking a lot but
Jess Spendlove (26:15.278)
Mmm.
Jess Spendlove (26:19.182)
Hmm. Hmm.
Ezio Mormile (26:33.673)
listening.
Jess Spendlove (26:33.718)
No, it’s great. It’s, you know, it’s like, this is as we said at the start, I’m just keen to talk about your concept because there’s just so much crossover with A, my philosophy, but B, what the audience want to listen and you’ve got this amazing synthesized and this is like, who’s coming up with a new concept these days? We’ve, I think we’ve discussed this, you know, it’s really.
Ezio Mormile (26:54.375)
You
Jess Spendlove (26:57.068)
you’ve probably not come up with someone else has talked about it. mean, not to hijack the conversation, but I’ve been talking about a few things recently, like one is a B testing, which is very common in business and from a health and a performance lens. And I haven’t actually pinched that from anywhere. But then I was prepping for like a CEO offsite last week. And I know they all listened to Dr. Peter Attia tuned into a couple of episodes and he was talking about it on there. And I actually hadn’t heard that but I was like,
Ezio Mormile (27:09.286)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (27:13.478)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (27:22.513)
No.
Jess Spendlove (27:25.676)
You know, no one’s coming up with a new concept. So I just say you’re a master synthesizer of amazing ideas.
Ezio Mormile (27:32.712)
No, no, I love that. And I’ve just written down Peter Rattia, because I looked that up. I’m writing things down as you say things too. I always, I’m a big believer, we’re always learning from each other, you know? And people will say things, and I’ll just say, oh, I’ll look into that, that sounds interesting, oh, I don’t know much about that, I’ll look into that, oh, actually, I should go back and look at that. so I love, there’s a couple of things I’ve been writing, that’s why I lean over. But it is, and…
Jess Spendlove (27:36.27)
Jess Spendlove (27:53.326)
Mm-hmm.
Jess Spendlove (27:57.6)
No, it’s great.
Ezio Mormile (28:01.895)
putting it into a context that is understandable, know, completely, completely, and for different audiences, right? So you, you even how we work with, from CEOs and corporate to athletes, and some of those athletes will vary in age, some of them will vary even in education.
Jess Spendlove (28:04.782)
Translating, translating it.
Ezio Mormile (28:25.465)
and things like that. It’s funny, was just, I was working with a team and an athlete and there some challenges with this athlete and I was catching up with him and one of them actually said to me, said, actually he might not be able to read.
because there some surveys that they’d filled in, there some worrying signs in the survey. We these surveys that were on. said, oh, okay. And they looked at me, I said, yeah, know, we’ve had some athletes that can’t read it yet, can’t happen. I oh, okay, no worries. So I caught up with this player, took him for coffee, and we’re talking this and this. And then I said, oh, by the way, um, yeah, just down the street, do you read? And he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I read. I said, oh, yeah. So I said,
what’s the last book you read? He said, Let them theory. And, and he read that and I went back to him. So he reads, he can read. There’s a disconnect here, but don’t assume he can’t read. can definitely read. but that might be how he can.
you know, lot of people are shy. And that’s interesting, they get media training and stuff, but often didn’t sign up to talk in front of people. anyway, yeah, no, that’s just interesting what we learn and perceptions. Well, that leads me to the next one. The next one is actually around…
Jess Spendlove (29:44.674)
Yeah, and I can see how each one is so, and I know you said it doesn’t necessarily build, as we kind of flow through this in terms of laying it out, like each of these really do build and leverage off the last, yeah.
Ezio Mormile (29:58.876)
Yeah, try and build it up. And the next one is actually leadership skills. And what I mean by that is not just giving them capacity to lead a team, but self leadership around managing their time. We talked about.
or 68 hours in a week, even though there’s a routine, but how they manage it, because they also get a lot of rest time, but how they manage themselves around learning new skills, knowledge, having other interests, their personal brand, what their personal brand is, and again, this translates for me in the corporate space as well, what’s your brand? I love asking that question. What’s your favorite brand, by the way? Well, I gotcha. There’s a question for you off the cuff, Jess.
Jess Spendlove (30:38.888)
gosh, the mum brain doesn’t allow me to think spur of the moment. Gosh, I’m looking around for something that I’ve got, which I can just, well, actually, you know what? have a random, I have a favorite notebook, which I’m, it’s a pointed coat. It’s like, this is how I get.
Ezio Mormile (30:42.327)
I know, sorry, I just threw it in.
Ezio Mormile (30:53.925)
Yeah, tell me. Yes, tell me. No, no, no, tell me, tell me, tell me.
Ezio Mormile (31:02.876)
Yes.
Jess Spendlove (31:03.576)
hooked on things. It’s actually very hard to source in Australia. So I basically order them from the US. It’s probably a very overpriced notebook, and I know you like to write, but for me it’s like an experience. There’s something in it. So I’m going to go with that. Not my absolute, but it’s one of my favorite things that I’m very fussy on. Yeah, appointed co.
Ezio Mormile (31:07.705)
Okay. Yes.
Ezio Mormile (31:14.118)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (31:20.39)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (31:26.417)
point again, I love that, I’ve never heard that. And that’s a great answer, because that’s a great example where then we dig in with the athletes and in the corporate space around what are the words which you’ve used to describe Poincare and it’s rare and like you said, it’s not the cheapest but there’s something special about it. And then saying okay, what do you want our personal brand to be? Similar to that, so that’s a great, as I asked you, thought this is probably not fair, because it is quite a hard question.
not something we prepare for. But I gotta say, for diversity, it is interesting what people say. I’ve had even lawyers say, Kmart, a lawyer said, it’s affordable, it’s quick, it’s easy, and I can go in. And there’s no remorse, right, because it’s cheap. And it’s kind of like, okay, there’s different things, different things. So.
Jess Spendlove (32:12.962)
Get everything.
Jess Spendlove (32:19.628)
And so that really also a piece on values. It’s kind of, yeah.
Ezio Mormile (32:22.811)
Yes, and element values, yeah. And how we see ourselves too, it may just be, know, from a work perspective that, you know, we want to be versatile and adaptable, you know, and compared to someone who’s very precise and whatnot. There’s no right or wrong. I love questions where there’s no right or wrong, but it’s interesting for athletes and for us. Then we start getting into, so here’s something I pinched from Susan David, but emotional agility. I love that, around the emotion. So.
How do we work out with the athletes but also in the sporting world where we can manage our emotions and be agile, where we are again often fatigued, we started with energy. So much change, more change today than ever before and uncertainty restructures all the time, transformations, leaders changing overnight.
There’s so much uncertainty. So how are we able to adapt with that from an emotional perspective? Setbacks, failure, all stuff that you know, but trying to condition them to take that because again, even for athletes, it’s up and down. It’s a roller coaster. It’s a roller coaster. And likewise for corporate athletes, it’s generally a roller. We win deals, we lose deals. We’re making target, we’re not making target. So we look at different schools at how we work in and around that, even around managing negative thoughts.
how we prepare for that, looking at great achievements and how we learn from those and relive that. So there’s a whole piece around that emotional agility.
Jess Spendlove (33:56.803)
Have you got a favorite kind of one or two? Like, is that like a reflection in a journaling or that’s like a, like a reframe or a, I don’t know, something in the moment.
Ezio Mormile (34:03.078)
Yep.
Ezio Mormile (34:07.687)
Yes, a big one I love to ask people is their greatest achievement, excluding having children. I love that question. And I ask for top two or three. Yes, yes, you can’t, isn’t it? Because the child is like, it’s an ego. And then what’s interesting with that is when you take the child one out of it, if you don’t, some people really struggle to come up with that. And I say, you know, you and I work with a lot of…
Jess Spendlove (34:17.048)
I now understand that.
Jess Spendlove (34:32.014)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (34:36.039)
senior people and professionals, whether it’s athletes or executives. And you’re kind of going, well, if you’re in this room, you’ve achieved a lot. And isn’t it amazing how they can’t come up with two or three things. And then, this is what I love when you ask great questions, just when you sit down and go for it, then it starts to open up. I ran a session, I asked this question to CPAs recently on the Gold Coast. And someone at the front said, financial independence.
at the age of X and owning my home, that was a big thing. And you’ll get things like that, then, you know, them have done a degree, promotions, we’ve had several promotions. Other athletes, for example, come back to athletes who’ve bought their parents’ houses, their parents have never owned a home.
And then of course you ask them, easy or hard? They’re all hard. Struggle. Did you ever doubt yourself? Yes, bang, big achievement. And then you start finding there’s more and more more. I actually get them to draw mountains and every mountain is an achievement. And then we use that as a visual to reflect on, I’ve achieved a lot.
All of those achievements, guarantee you, you can relive them really quickly, because they’re personal. You’ll just know, I look like this, I was doing this, I was doing, yeah, I remember that, I remember, yeah, I did. And you just, you you don’t need to go through notes or anything, it’s just in your head. And then we relive them and make a list of them, literally, and draw them out. And I’ve got mine on a page where I look back on it. And then we start saying, okay, what’s your next achievement, biggest achievement gonna be?
next year and you’re personal and professional right and you start seeing just different things so that’s one of my favorites.
Jess Spendlove (36:10.734)
Mmm.
Jess Spendlove (36:17.262)
Yeah, I love that. think, I mean, often it’s the visual that is the thing that sticks. And I mean, sometimes I live on Friday, this offsite that I was at, and I added in a few slides, which I haven’t used with this kind of group before, around periodization of training and food and just getting them to conceptualize it. And sometimes I’m like, are these concepts too simple for these very intelligent, like these people are running big.
Ezio Mormile (36:29.041)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (36:42.944)
organizations, they may the founder them or they’re the CEO and the amount of time someone I had this lady come up to me CEO of a huge group. Love that slide like just having that visual in my brain for when I’m in a really busy season and I’m tired but my habits are slipping. She’s like that was amazing and it just sometimes you know sometimes it doesn’t have to be the impressive stats and like sometimes it is like a simple visual with the right story that lands and that’s why when you’re talking about the mount like
Ezio Mormile (36:43.323)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (36:52.007)
Okay.
Ezio Mormile (36:58.022)
Yeah.
Ezio Mormile (37:07.621)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (37:11.33)
Yeah, it’s a great visual. People can just keep in there.
Ezio Mormile (37:16.005)
No, no, well, and keeping it leads beautifully to the next one. I call it focused cognition. I call it the F word. I love to ask what’s the F word, and it’s focused, right? For me, focusing on the right things, the right time, not focusing on what we can control. So I talk a lot about the F words, and I say to people, another F word is thinking. I say I’m from Wollongong, I spell thinking with an F, because what I’m trying to encourage athletes and all of us and myself is to think and rethink.
Jess Spendlove (37:22.709)
Yeah
Jess Spendlove (37:38.601)
Hahaha
Ezio Mormile (37:45.882)
even like your example there was perfect, it’s quite simple, but we don’t think about it. And then Jess puts it up and you go, okay, I can use that, that makes sense. It’s one slide, I can use that concept if I’m overwhelmed or whatever. So the focus cognition, and it’s very much around reflection, journaling, I took my journal up, I’m in Dubai, but I kept the journal for nearly 30 years. It’s a powerful experience, I got it from Stephen Covey.
in his book and he’s amazing. I find it very therapeutic to write the journal every day. What did I do? Sometimes I struggle. I don’t even know what I did, but I’m exhausted. I’m thinking, what did I do? What did I achieve? What are my highlights? What am I worried about? But to go back.
even a week, a month, a year, 10 years, 15, and you cringe, and you think, oh my goodness, and we forget a lot, right? You’ll notice, but memory’s not as accurate as we think, right? And we also forget the good things. So here’s an interesting activity I’ll do, and my kids will cringe, my wife and kids. So I’ve got five children from 26 to 17. The end of the year, I’ll do this. I’ll go through my journal, and with a spreadsheet, you see, with seven columns.
Jess Spendlove (38:42.37)
Mm.
Ezio Mormile (39:04.133)
five kids, my wife and I, in fact they’re partners as well, so we’re up to like 12 columns. And I write down all the great achievements they had, because I often will write down what they’ve done. So one of my daughters had her last day of uni last week. yeah, she can be a nurse, like her mum.
Jess Spendlove (39:22.914)
huge.
Ezio Mormile (39:26.769)
which is exciting. But at the end of year, we’ll sit down and we’ll have a meal and I’ll give them post-it notes and they’ll all cringe. And I’ll say write down greatest achievements, write down your greatest. And they’ll only struggle, you know, three or four if they’re lucky. And then I’ll pull out the spreadsheet and you’ll rattle off so many. Can I just say one other personal reflection though, is the amount of times I’ve written in my journal, filled up the page and it was all about work. And I forgot to mention that, you know.
did something or one of my sons did something or my wife did something and you just have this realisation that you know we can get so consumed with our roles at work. That’s one role, we have other roles and you can’t and you feel terrible but least you pick it up. I’ve had it sometimes the next day and I think my goodness isn’t that amazing like I just spent a whole day writing about work, what I was excited about, what I’m stressed about.
And then in the midst of that, I’ll just neglect it. It’s easy to do. So it’s an interesting phrase.
Jess Spendlove (40:32.94)
It’s like a good pulse check because so many people, how many people live their lives like that and then go on to then only regret it decades later as opposed to days because they don’t have a practice.
Ezio Mormile (40:46.823)
Yeah, people would think we almost sink this because that leads me to that last point, which is purpose and you’re 100 % right around that for me is always the fear that we get so caught up to your point in the moment and in the corporate space and everything that we neglect the people that matter most and it’s easy to do and that’s why…
the model I’m gonna cover off purpose but to your beautiful question at the start, I often will start with that around where do you wanna be, who’s important to you, what are your goals personally and professionally and those things.
Simon Sinek wrote the great book on the why, but even Victor Franko did a lot of work around purpose. It probably sounds a bit weird, but I love Stephen Covey as an author and he’s got a great activity in his book. It’s very confrontational, so I’ll give you a few different versions, one is a, yes, the seven habits. Yeah, love seven. I named one of my dogs after him, believe it or not, about 25 years ago, Covey. They died in the same year, two months apart, extraordinary. The funeral.
Jess Spendlove (41:37.792)
Is this the seven habits? that? Yeah. Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (41:48.727)
I want.
Ezio Mormile (41:53.146)
story right where you visualize and we part of this is visualizing skills as well that we use in the corporate life which we use with athletes all the time visualization and things around body language and self-talk but visualizing your funeral and writing your eulogy which I did do about 20 I did writing down what you know pick three people who
What would you want them to say? Now, that’s a bit extreme. So there’s two other versions I use for that. One is, it’s your 80th, all your friends have come together. Could be work friends too. Pick three people, what do want them to say about you? That’s a good one. Another version I use, which again, I pinched. don’t know, I think this was working with Amazon. I came across it. I love great questions. This is an interesting question. It’s the 17th of November, 2028. You and I just, we bumping.
to each other at the rocks where we had our last coffee together when we first met and
I say, Jess, how have you been? haven’t seen you for three years. And you said to me, Etia, the last three years have been the best three years of my life, personally and professionally. And I said, wow, that’s extraordinary, Jess. Let’s sit down and have a coffee. Tell me what happened. So your job from here is to write down what happened in the three years. And it’s an interesting question because the three years you can touch. You can touch. And it’s funny, actually, last night I had dinner with a friend who lives in Dubai.
Jess Spendlove (43:14.155)
Mm.
Ezio Mormile (43:21.595)
business associate. And he was saying how hard it is now to plan 10 years ahead in business and even five years ahead because there’s so much change and uncertainty. just don’t know. Look at AI and cyber security, all these things happening. And…
I thought yeah, but I agreed, but three years for me is still doable. In three years, I will be 55. My kids will be 29 to 20.
Jess Spendlove (43:42.414)
Hmm.
Ezio Mormile (43:51.708)
what’s happened in those three years to them, to me, per vision. But yeah, I love the purpose bit. there was a great quote in Victor Frankl’s book, he quotes Nitschke. He says, the person who has a why has a better chance of developing a how. And athletes and corporate is the same, right, around having something else, whatever that is. Anyway, that’s the model.
Jess Spendlove (43:57.326)
Mmm.
Jess Spendlove (44:13.506)
Hmm. And it’s probably particularly when the things go wrong or not how they want, because it just helps them not ride in sport. It’s so like, you know, the difference between a win and a loss, like, you know, seeing behind the scenes of so many sports, like for me, those that ride the highs and lows less, better predictor of overall kind of
Ezio Mormile (44:37.819)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (44:41.944)
culture and performance and yeah, even if things are not particularly going right. And I say this in inverted commas.
Ezio Mormile (44:44.519)
Yeah, you might.
You make a great point. It reminds me of this, which is this statement. I don’t think it’s factual. Very few athletes, sporting coaches, CEOs, senior executives, in my view, move on on their own accord.
I could be wrong, but in my experience, there is a high, there’s a great quote, I used this at a coaches conference once, I don’t know if I’ll ever do it again, they said there’s two types of coaches, I don’t know if you’ve heard it, they said the coach that’s been sacked and a coach that’s gonna be sacked, but most of them, most, I had a coach I worked with in England, he got sacked after 39 days. But even in the corporate world, right, hero to zero, right? People get tapped on the shoulder and…
Jess Spendlove (45:27.228)
wow.
Ezio Mormile (45:35.303)
you know, it’s time to move on or there’s a restructure and you know, it happens and all of a sudden you’re looking for another role and people don’t see that but you’re right, it’s hero to zero. There’s so many changes so having something else is important but that’s the model.
Jess Spendlove (45:37.838)
Hmm.
Jess Spendlove (45:49.486)
Bye.
Well, I love it. mean, I’ve taken so much out of this. think the thing for me, I’m going to reflect on the three year question because I do think that does sound like I can touch it. I can see it. It’ll be here in no time. And what else did? my gosh. There was so there were so many nuggets that I loved. I mean, it’s it’s practical. It’s like it’s synthesized. You just synthesize so much brilliant work. People leading books, you know,
Ezio Mormile (46:03.879)
Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (46:22.178)
key organizations. You’ve got so much experience in sport business, very generous offering your time and apologies when we were discussing lining it up. just did not check time zone. So I didn’t realize it was so early in the morning for you. I know you’re a morning morning man. So but to round it out, I do like to ask my guests a question and I think I know what your first one will be. But
Ezio Mormile (46:35.611)
No, no, it’s so good. No, no, no, it’s so good.
I am, I am. It’s all good.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jess Spendlove (46:52.61)
You’re a lot of things, you know, working in a lot of high pressure environments, high performing people and teams. What three things help you stay at the top?
Ezio Mormile (47:04.519)
Yeah, wow. So it’s now 5am. I’ll go for a run through the streets of Dubai. I love that. Going through the streets like the back streets is awesome. I find that quite therapeutic. I’ll sit down, have coffee by myself and write in my journal. So that’s another thing.
I think just, yeah, and kind of that family element, just having something else to focus on for me helps. And knowing I’ve got those things coming up, like I don’t run fast, I’m not a great athlete, but just being outside for me is important and knowing I’ve got that time to kind of, and the reflecting, the journaling and just energy. I get energy from other people. Yeah, so I don’t know if that’s three, but they’re definitely the things.
Jess Spendlove (47:50.339)
No, that’s perfect, yeah. I did think the first, well I didn’t know about the run. I didn’t know it was the run into the coffee in the journal, but I did know that that happened in the morning. And most importantly for us not to forget, best place for people to find, connect with you, learn more about what you do or your thoughts and things that you share.
Ezio Mormile (48:12.443)
thecorporateathleteway.com or through LinkedIn, Etsy or MoMile but the website is thecorporateathleteway.com is the best way to go through.
Jess Spendlove (48:22.028)
Amazing. I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes. And it’s been a pleasure having a conversation. mean, it’s been a pleasure getting to know you where we’re actually in a speaking mastermind together and we’re buddies. Lee and Christie paired us up. And I mean, I feel like we could sit here talking about this stuff all day. So it’s just so organic and it’s the same people, same purpose, I guess, different expertise, but there’s just so much crossover. So
very grateful for your time, very grateful for the time zone transitioning that you’ve done. And I know a lot of people will really get a lot out of this. So if you’ve tuned in, if you’ve loved everything in today’s conversation, make sure you share it with a friend or if you know on social media, love to hear your reflections, your takeaways, what you’re working on. If you haven’t already left a review and you love the podcast.
you know, of course, would be so grateful for you to do that. And otherwise, that’s all we’ve got this week. And I’ll be back again next week with a solo episode helping you not only reach the top, but sustainably stay there. I’ll see you all then.
Ezio Mormile (49:29.095)
Thank you, Jess, you’re a star. Thank you very much.